AR15 for hunting deer

You can't use a high powered evil black high capacity military style assault weapon for hunting, you will cook the animal as soon as you shoot it and there would be nothing left. (Says the ignorant gun control freaks)

A buddy just took a small buck in WV yesterday with an AR15 using a 77 gr 223 round. Dropped almost immediately. Like someone else said....the round will do it you just have to ensure the shot placement is there.

Matt said:

Another thought. Would a heavier 223/5.56 round be ethical for deer at 150yds. 69-77gr range maybe?

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More important is a bullet of the proper construction for deer. Not a full metal jacket round, and not the varmint configurations.

As you mentioned that you don't handload, Winchester's .223 Remington 64 grain Deer Season XP ammunition would be a very good choice. Federal Premium and Federal Fusion brands have suitable offerings in their product line as well. So does Barnes.

Also a consideration is whether or not your particular barrel has a twist rate sufficiently fast to stabilize heavier (longer) bullets.

ok i will come out and say it. consider using an ar-10 caliber (i know, a different gun to buy, if you/he don't already have a deer caliber bolt or lever gun sitting around) instead. 308 has some 50% more energy than a 6.8. while i'm sure every animal on earth has been taken by a measly .22 long rifle, we owe it to our game to take them as humanely as possible. i realize shot placement and bullet construction are key, but more energy (and 150g vs 75g) on the animal helps ensure a quick, humane dispatch. and hey, if you/he don't have a 308, 270, 30-06 or the like, here's a chance to buy another gun...

Neot said:

A buddy just took a small buck in WV yesterday with an AR15 using a 77 gr 223 round. Dropped almost immediately. Like someone else said....the round will do it you just have to ensure the shot placement is there.

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I believe it

My hunting buddy uses a 22-250 for deer. The don’t go far after being hit with a bullet traveling at 4000 fps through the lungs

I understand the inclination to gravitate towards the insurance provided by a larger caliber rifle such as the 308 or 270. But that's all it is in reality, just an inclination. Shot placement and round construction are much more important. I have tracked deer shot by other Hunters using 308, 260rem and even 338 Lapua and we never found them. All of them had been hit and initially left a good blood trail which dried up shortly afterwards. Most likely they all died but they went a long way before doing so. Sure you can buy a large bore rifle like 308 in 11 to 16 lb platform but I don't think that's what the OP was asking about. I would much rather hunt with my 300 Blackout that weighs seven and a half pounds.

I'll admit I'm a fanboy for the 300 BLK using 110 GR Lehigh Controlled Chaos. I have killed deer and Hogs up to 185 lb out to 150 yards with my 300 BLK SBR 10.2 inch barrel. My ten-year-old daughter just took a nice Doe in West Virginia with her 300 BLK SBR 8.2 inch at a little over 120 yards. I wholeheartedly believe that you can ethically hunt with AR 15 caliber rifles. It is much more pleasant to carry and shoot then a larger caliber rifle especially for younger kids or older adults.

Klunatic said:

I understand the inclination to gravitate towards the insurance provided by a larger caliber rifle such as the 308 or 270. But that's all it is in reality, just an inclination. Shot placement and round construction are much more important. I have tracked deer shot by other Hunters using 308, 260rem and even 338 Lapua and we never found them. All of them had been hit and initially left a good blood trail which dried up shortly afterwards. Most likely they all died but they went a long way before doing so. Sure you can buy a large bore rifle like 308 in 11 to 16 lb platform but I don't think that's what the OP was asking about. I would much rather hunt with my 300 Blackout that weighs seven and a half pounds.

I'll admit I'm a fanboy for the 300 BLK using 110 GR Lehigh Controlled Chaos. I have killed deer and Hogs up to 185 lb out to 150 yards with my 300 BLK SBR 10.2 inch barrel. My ten-year-old daughter just took a nice Doe in West Virginia with her 300 BLK SBR 8.2 inch at a little over 120 yards. I wholeheartedly believe that you can ethically hunt with AR 15 caliber rifles. It is much more pleasant to carry and shoot then a larger caliber rifle especially for younger kids or older adults.

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Link to the ammo?

DaemonAssassin said:

Link to the ammo?

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They stopped making the 110gr but the 115gr work great and will expand at lower velocities.

https://www.lehighdefense.com/colle...chaos-copper-115gr-bullet?variant=13335932548

My daughters 100lb+ doe was downed with the 115gr. Her rifle is suppressed and I actually heard the round strike the deers chest. Bullet barley broke the skin on the far side of the deer after breaking its shoulder on the far side. I found the base and 2 of 3 petals in the just under the skin.

Klunatic said:

My daughters 100lb+ doe was downed with the 115gr. Her rifle is suppressed and I actually heard the round strike the deers chest.

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she looks happy!

davsco said:

she looks happy!

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She was ecstatic!

So I said earlier that it'll work if the shot is placed well. Here's my first rifle deer story:

I shot a midsized 7 point in WV Monday morning, my first. I also consider myself an excellent bench shooter. The groups from my .308 we're near an inch at 100 yards with this rifle. The buck was first shot at about 100 yards before running downhill to about 100 yards behind me. Then I shot him a second time through thick trees as he stood and looked. After the second shot he lay down and died, but not before crossing a 150 yard field.

We found two holes, one through the ribs and one shattered his hip. Which was first, I don't know. Would a .223 round worked? I don't know. .308 did enough damage and he still covered a ton of distance.

So maybe .223 is a good option, but I'm glad that's not what was in my hands.

Start shooting some big corn fed deer with a 223 and you may become rapidly disappointed. Yeah shot placement is critical and there have been leaps and bounds in bullet technology but the muzzle energy is just not there. And Im just talking about whitetail, you shoot a sika with one, good luck with that if your in the phrag. I know that's probably an unpopular opinion but there it is. Just like another poster pointed out, larger calibers with more energy are there for when shots don't go as planned.
Obviously it can be done but in my experience just not the best choice when hunting under adverse conditions or a suitable rest cannot always be obtained. Put one in the hands of a youngster things can go bad in a hurry if they get too excited.
A 243 in the hands of a novice hunter is marginal enough in my view as well. Seen plenty of nice bucks lost to them as well when shot placement was poor.

Uncle Duke said:

More important is a bullet of the proper construction for deer. Not a full metal jacket round, and not the varmint configurations.

As you mentioned that you don't handload, Winchester's .223 Remington 64 grain Deer Season XP ammunition would be a very good choice. Federal Premium and Federal Fusion brands have suitable offerings in their product line as well. So does Barnes.

Also a consideration is whether or not your particular barrel has a twist rate sufficiently fast to stabilize heavier (longer) bullets.

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75gr Speer golddots appear to rock for deer. Great expansion and sufficiently strong construction you can put it through a shoulder and still have a reasonable chance of the bullet exiting the hide on the other side.

.223 of any construction is really a broadside only caliber. NOT something I’d want to shoot a deer with if offering a quartering aspect unless you are going for a neck shot. It something I’d want to shoot one with at longer ranges.

Just because it can be done, doesn’t necessarily make it ideal.

I am building an 18” 6.5 Grendel for myself as a lighter weight semi-auto deer hunting rifle and for plinking. I am also building it for my kids once they start deer hunting. No need to buy a youth rifle, just shorten the stock.

gwchem said:

So I said earlier that it'll work if the shot is placed well. Here's my first rifle deer story:

I shot a midsized 7 point in WV Monday morning, my first. I also consider myself an excellent bench shooter. The groups from my .308 we're near an inch at 100 yards with this rifle. The buck was first shot at about 100 yards before running downhill to about 100 yards behind me. Then I shot him a second time through thick trees as he stood and looked. After the second shot he lay down and died, but not before crossing a 150 yard field.

We found two holes, one through the ribs and one shattered his hip. Which was first, I don't know. Would a .223 round worked? I don't know. .308 did enough damage and he still covered a ton of distance.

So maybe .223 is a good option, but I'm glad that's not what was in my hands.

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Takes an honest man to say he's an MOA shooter off the bench and then admit to hitting Bambi in the butt when the rubber met the road.

This is precisely why borderline cartridges shouldn't be used to ethically hunt deer. Especially at longer ranges. And 150 yards, unsupported and excited, is long range shooting.

Interesting thread. Lots of opinions here, and a whole lot of validity to most all of them. My opinion (for what it's worth), ethical deer hunting isn't so much about a cartridge, or even a choice of tool generally, as it is about awareness and a mindset.

I've hunted as much as I could for most of my life. I've been fortunate to have harvested my share too. Comes to deer, I'm also old enough to remember a time when shooting a deer was really a pretty big deal, simply because the deer population in the early part of my life didn't even begin to remotely approach the vast numbers of deer encountered today.

Like some others here I'd guess, I've had the good fortune to have killed deer with Foster type slugs, with Brenneke type slugs, with sabot slugs, with buckshot where legal, with percussion rifle, with centerfire rifle, and with handguns. I say that only because, with each and every one of these tools, there's properly I believe, an entirely different set of considerations, and thus the requirement for different and appropriate knowledge and mindset.

To keep very long stories regarding differences with each of these tools shorter, it doesn't follow that one would (nor should one) approach deer hunting with a smooth bore shotgun loaded with buckshot, in the same way one might if loaded with Foster or Brenneke slugs. These choices (discounting pumpkin balls) were once your only shotgun choices. The shotgun game further changed and evolved dramatically in just my lifetime, beginning primarily with the Hastings rifled slug barrel, and sabot slugs. Gone are the days when, if your shotgun and slug combo could consistently keep 50 yard shots on a pie plate, you'd likely want to give it it's own pillow, and sleep with it instead of your wife at night. Shotgun hunting today has evolved to be very different.

With rifles, make no mistake, .223 Remington will kill deer. I know that personally, and for an absolute fact. I also know that anytime I've ever hunted deer with .223, I did it on purpose, and mindful of what I did and (and more and most importantly I believe) didn't have in hand. As "deer rifles" go, .223 Remington is IMO indeed a very serious concession. It's as mentioned, and I believe with good reason, not even remotely in the same class of many other available chamberings. But to me, and for me personally that's ok, if used in a manner that I believe to be responsible. I'm not a novice hunter. I'm further certainly not under any illusions that I can play by the exact same rules I might otherwise consider, had I taken my .30-06 or my .308 in hand, or any number of other choices for chamberings I today have available to me. I want proper bullets, good optics, proper angles, selective shots, limited range, and ideally adequate rests if at all possible, with any and all cartridges I'm going to fire at a game animal. And with all of these provided for, my ethics tells me that there are even more shots than otherwise, with some tools in hand rather than others, that I will indeed need to pass. I'm good with that. Hunting for me was once about quantity. Today it's about quality.

Same theme with handguns, which I also love and love to hunt with, and which is in many ways this very same debate to an even greater extreme. Here, the "proper rifle caliber" selection debate really pales in comparison. Ain't a handgun made that's a rifle. Ethics with handgun hunting requires lots and lots of practice, I'd argue certainly with big bores, and much shorter properly angled and placed shots. Also for me in recent years, handgun hunting ethics dictated my grudgingly making a decision I didn't want to make. That was, for the first time a few years back, to scope a hunting revolver, as a grudgingly made concession to creating the very real advantages of one single focal plane, based on awareness of my (today's) older eyes. I simply don't have the vision I once had anymore, especially in lower light. And while I can't say I'm overly fond of that fact, I'm darned sure very well aware of it.

Good thread, and GOOD LUCK to all this year! Hunt hard and hunt ethically, regardless of your choice of tools. Your greatest tool is your good sense. Hunt with an awareness of limitations inherent to all tools, and with the proper respect you know to be required.

Uncle Duke said:

More important is a bullet of the proper construction for deer.

As you mentioned that you don't handload, Winchester's .223 Remington 64 grain Deer Season XP ammunition would be a very good choice. Federal Premium and Federal Fusion brands have suitable offerings in their product line as well. So does Barnes.

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This is true. The Barnes X-bullet in 223 does an amazing job on deer!

Klunatic said:

I understand the inclination to gravitate towards the insurance provided by a larger caliber rifle such as the 308 or 270. But that's all it is in reality, just an inclination. Shot placement and round construction are much more important. I have tracked deer shot by other Hunters using 308, 260rem and even 338 Lapua and we never found them. All of them had been hit and initially left a good blood trail which dried up shortly afterwards. Most likely they all died but they went a long way before doing so.

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Exactly. Bolded, in particular.

Doco Overboard said:

A 243 in the hands of a novice hunter is marginal enough in my view as well. Seen plenty of nice bucks lost to them as well when shot placement was poor.

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And you'll see lots of lost bucks EVERYTIME shot placement is poor no matter the caliber. You can't blame caliber for poor marksmanship or poor sportsmanship or poor decision-making skills. If you can't make a killing shot, don't pull the trigger. And don't expect caliber to make up for lack of skill either. SIMPLE

iH8DemLibz said:

This is precisely why borderline cartridges shouldn't be used to ethically hunt deer. Especially at longer ranges. And 150 yards, unsupported and excited, is long range shooting.

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So you're saying that if you have a .30-06 instead of a .223, it would be OK to take a shot at 150 yards, unsupported, and excited?????? HELL NO!!!
No cartridge, "borderline" or not, should be shot at 150 yards, unsupported, and excited. Caliber is irrelevant. It ain't about caliber, it's about the person pulling the trigger. Ethical deer hunting requires knowing when you can and can't make the shot. If you can make a clean-killing shot, you shoot. If you can't be certain of making the shot, you don't shoot! And don't expect your 300 Wondermag to turn crappy marksmanship into dead deer. Ain't gonna happen.

Personally help a friend track a deer he shot with a 12 Rem Slugger slug too far back in the guts. He recalled seeing the deer running off with intestines hanging out the deer's side, dragging on the ground.. We never found that deer. Now the 12ga Slugger has all the muzzle energy and "knock-down" power any round could ask for and it still came up short. Why? Bullet placement, pure and simple.

I built this 6.5 Grendel upper in Chad's class and put it on an existing lower. Target below is at 100 yards.

Klunatic said:

They stopped making the 110gr but the 115gr work great and will expand at lower velocities.

https://www.lehighdefense.com/colle...chaos-copper-115gr-bullet?variant=13335932548

My daughters 100lb+ doe was downed with the 115gr. Her rifle is suppressed and I actually heard the round strike the deers chest. Bullet barley broke the skin on the far side of the deer after breaking its shoulder on the far side. I found the base and 2 of 3 petals in the just under the skin.

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Best dad ever

She can shoot too. Must have had a good teacher.

Congrats young lady! Great to see!

iH8DemLibz said:

Takes an honest man to say he's an MOA shooter off the bench and then admit to hitting Bambi in the butt when the rubber met the road.

This is precisely why borderline cartridges shouldn't be used to ethically hunt deer. Especially at longer ranges. And 150 yards, unsupported and excited, is long range shooting.

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Yes sir, and I'm not ashamed either. I took what I thought was a good shot on a walking deer and that's how it turned out. Will I do better next time? You bet!

Second downside to that bad shot was losing a ton of meat from that leg due to the damage and hip shattering.