1902-1908 Colt Semi-Auto pistols

Being new to MD Shooters and having zero experience in the C&R world, I don't know the rules here about asking for firearm pricing/values. If not permitted or if it's a faux pa of some kind please disregard:

My father has owned 2 old Colt "Pockethammer" autos, a .25 auto from 1902, and a .380 auto NYC Police Detective edition from 1908 (I believe I got the dates correct). Dad contacted Colt a few years ago and their historian sent him about 15-20 pages of info on these guns. I don't have all those details yet, but from what he said the Detective sidearm was a special run of only 800 made.

Again if it's allowed by protocols of the site or professional ethics, would either of these two pistols be of any value? Obviously they'd require hands-on examination for precise evaluation. I've attached a couple of his pics of the .380. I'm not looking for a sworn statement of value, just maybe a rough ballpark or some advice if these are even

worth pursuing. They're both in decent shape, blueing a little old/worn, but still both shooters. The reason I ask is I just saw a LGS website inventory with 2 similar Colt "Pockethammers" in .38 ACP for $2,500 & $3,995. I'm just wondering if I should have my father look into this further.

Those prices at the end of your post are rather steep, especially the latter. For that money, I'd be looking hard at what's available for lower-condition Colt 1902 Sporting and Military models.

Post your questions and photos at the Colt forum http://www.coltforum.com/ . The folks there can answer anything Colt.

The posts on old Colts reminded me that Montgomery County Police are still trying to solve a double-murder from 1935 that involved a 1903 Colt Auto. The case is known as the Car Barn Murders. The robber or robbers made off with trolley receipts for the day--worth about $20K in today's money--after shooting and killing the desk agent and the guard. The robber or robbers were never caught.

I don't see that the caliber was included in the story, but if anyone has a 1903 Colt, the MoCo Police would like to hear from you. It is possible that the 1903 Colt used in the murders came into someone's collection and could solve the case. The perpetrators are now dead, so it is an academic effort to solve the mystery that has been going on for more than 80 years.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/invest...omery-Countys-Oldest-Cold-Case-369497362.html

What you have is a Model M Pocket HAMMERLESS, commonly referred to as a Colt 1908 because it was introduced in 1908 in .380 ACP (a much different round than a .38 ACP).
(The Colt 1903 Hammerless was introduced tail end of 1903 in .32 ACP)
The 1903 Pocket Hammer in .38 ACP is an entirely different beast and was derived from the 1902 Sporting in .38 ACP

Your model M has a lot of finish loss and wear so the value will be well below $1k IMHO (probably $500 or so).
If it has a NYC police engraving or other provenance that will add a little premium to some collectors.
These things are built very well, and shoot great.
I'd put in a new recoil spring at the very least though.

BTW - adding to the confusion, the Model N "Vest Pocket" in .25ACP was also introduced in 1908 and is also referred to as a "Colt 1908" (not 1902).

As you can see from an original brochure, Colt never used the "1903" etc designation, that's something collectors came up with I think.

Also check Sam Lisker's web site:
http://www.coltautos.com/1908ph.htm
http://www.coltautos.com/1903h.htm
http://www.coltautos.com/1908vp.htm

A high-condition (95+%), early 1903 Pocket HAMMER will bring that kind of big money because the finish was so fragile, and they are very uncommon with that finish intact.

somd_mustangs said:

What you have is a Model M Pocket HAMMERLESS, commonly referred to as a Colt 1908 because it was introduced in 1908 in .380 ACP (a much different round than a .38 ACP).
(The Colt 1903 Hammerless was introduced tail end of 1903 in .32 ACP)
The 1903 Pocket Hammer in .38 ACP is an entirely different beast and was derived from the 1902 Sporting in .38 ACP

Your model M has a lot of finish loss and wear so the value will be well below $1k IMHO (probably $500 or so).
If it has a NYC police engraving or other provenance that will add a little premium to some collectors.
These things are built very well, and shoot great.
I'd put in a new recoil spring at the very least though.

BTW - adding to the confusion, the Model N "Vest Pocket" in .25ACP was also introduced in 1908 and is also referred to as a "Colt 1908" (not 1902).

As you can see from an original brochure, Colt never used the "1903" etc designation, that's something collectors came up with I think.

Also check Sam Lisker's web site:
http://www.coltautos.com/1908ph.htm
http://www.coltautos.com/1903h.htm
http://www.coltautos.com/1908vp.htm

A high-condition (95+%), early 1903 Pocket HAMMER will bring that kind of big money because the finish was so fragile, and they are very uncommon with that finish intact.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'll pass this along to my father. Cool old guns, valuable or not.

As a newbie your are not allowed to sell them in the classifieds or do an end around and sell them in this thread.

No offense but there are pistols in far better shape than your Dad's on Gunbroker. Colt came out with a reproduction 1908 and I think that helped goose the values up for the original. Anyway gunbroker has the most and you can see what prices people receive vs what buyer might ask.

I'd like to see a pic of the 25 acp

BigDaddy said:

Colt came out with a reproduction 1908 and I think that helped goose the values up for the original.

Click to expand...

It's a repro of the Colt 1903 in .32 ACP (Type V) not a 1908 in .380 ACP... I wish they would do one in .380 too.
US Armament produced them under Colt license.

These have always been popular pistols and will keep on truckin' price-wise.

BigDaddy said:

As a newbie your are not allowed to sell them in the classifieds or do an end around and sell them in this thread.

No offense but there are pistols in far better shape than your Dad's on Gunbroker. Colt came out with a reproduction 1908 and I think that helped goose the values up for the original. Anyway gunbroker has the most and you can see what prices people receive vs what buyer might ask.

I'd like to see a pic of the 25 acp

Click to expand...

Thanks for the confirmation on site protocols. I'm wasn't & am not gonna try to sell them as, well primarily they're not mine, and I'm just curious if they were valuable or semi-valuable enough to tell my Dad if he should look into selling them on his own. Lots of great tips & advice from the membership, which I appreciate.

They are old, and I doubted they were worth that much but you never know, particularly thinking because of the stamp from NYPD and limited run of that particular branding. Who among us gun owners doesn't like a good ol' firearms history lesson?

Interestingly enough, my father tells me the .380 pistol was originally an issued duty weapon of a great-great uncle that was a conductor on the Pennsylvania Railroad, & apparently as conductor had some sort of police powers serving in that capacity. Family lore or reality? Who knows, but very cool story. Still not sure why he would've been issued a NYC Detective issue weapon. Frankly that seems unlikely unless they were taken out of service at some point & re-distributed to other agencies.

I'll see if I can get a pic or two of the .25 posted for you? This pistol I'm told was owned by this uncle's wife / my great-great aunt who carried it for self defense during Prohibition. I knew her as a 90+ year old sweet lady when I was a child (I'm 49 now). It makes me laugh now knowing she was packing heat, and most likely some white lightning or bathtub gin as well.

Cool guns! Thanks for posting.