Please answer this for me.....

JerseyMike · Jan 30, 2020

Melnic said:
do the people who get arrested for illegally carrying a firearm end up getting a guilty plea on a lesser charge? Is it often or less often a charge that turns them into a prohibited person if they were not already?

If they plead guilty it will almost always be to a lesser charge. The state will generally “overcharge” an individual initially, meaning they will bring any feasible charges against them, regardless of the strength/chances of success on those charges. Then the state will offer a plea to lesser charges to entice the defendant to accept the plea in order to: (1) get a guaranteed conviction; (2) move on to the next case. Many defense attorneys then lean on their client to accept the first plea that comes along, selling it as “you could face all of this but if you take this great deal now you’ll only face x”.

Defendants *generally* have no incentive to accept a plea to the harshest penalty offenses laid out in the charging document. There are exceptions, but most would roll the dice and go to trial rather than plea out to the harshest offense just to get the acceptance of responsibility sentencing credit.

If a firearm is involved the state will generally seek a plea that will make the defendant a “disqualified person” moving forward. Why wouldn’t the state seek to make them a disqualified person? If the facts surrounding the gun are really bad for the state. Examples: the police seize a firearm due to what will almost certainly be determined an illegal search, or it is a very weak constructive possession case. If the defendant is already a prohibited person they generally could care less about it and that doesn’t even calculate into their decision-making process for a plea.

JerseyMike · Jan 30, 2020

ras_oscar said:
I'm going to accept your statement at face value because I have no facts available to support or refudiate them.

Legislature repeatedly proposes new laws which restrict 2A rights of all Maryland residents. The stated reason is to reduce the volume of violence committed with firearms. Given a portion of the violence occurs within urban areas of Maryland, and given your statement above regarding ther state of the judiciary in those areas, how can additional laws be expected to reduce the violence from occurring? Perhaps the correct response is to expand the capacity of the judiciary in overburdened areas.

Yeh I’ll 100% agree with you. The laws aren’t actually going to accomplish those ends, and all they do is restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens.

I think allocating more resources to the judicial system is definitely one of the things that would help with gun crime, but that alone won’t get it done. I don’t pretend to have the magic answers to this problem, but I can tell you most of these “non-sense” gun laws do absolutely nothing to decrease crime or reduce the violence from gun crimes.

radnor · Jan 30, 2020

Wow, reading the replies. Are you guys sure you're talking about Maryland??? In Delaware our AG is doing the same thing. The news urinal said 70% charges dropped in Delaware.

Lalez · Jan 30, 2020

radnor said:
Wow, reading the replies. Are you guys sure you're talking about Maryland??? In Delaware our AG is doing the same thing. The news urinal said 70% charges dropped in Delaware.

I know man, right?

OP here, I moved out of Baltimore County in 2013 and moved down to the Tampa, FL area. I'm in my early 40's now and in all my time living in Maryland, I never had even held a gun.

When I got down to FL my first employer, in a white collar industry mind you, that had nothing to do with security or anything like that, offered all new hires a discount on CCW classes. Within 3 months of moving to FL I had a carry permit, 2 pistols and over 2000 rounds downrange.

I joined this board almost 1 year ago because alot of my family still lives in Baltimore County and I have grave concerns about them still living there.

My impressions of Maryland gun owners after reading this forum off and on for the last few months is that they have been so beat down, that they are quick to discredit alot of posts. Maryland needs help, badly. Where to start I'm not sure......

danb · Jan 30, 2020

Lalez said:
My impressions of Maryland gun owners after reading this forum off and on for the last few months is that they have been so beat down, that they are quick to discredit alot of posts. Maryland needs help, badly. Where to start I'm not sure......

It is the silly season in Annapolis (a$$holes are in session), and you have 9 posts, and you volunteer that it might be safe to flout the law based on a Facebook post.

Maryland needs help, for sure, but not the kind that starts with a suggestion to ignore the law based on a Facebook post.

Bikebreath · Jan 30, 2020

DivingDriver said:
One of my neighbors dad who lives in the LaPlata area was arrested for having a handgun in his truck loaded with a mag in it. He's in his late seventies and has stated to me on occasions that he keeps it there for self protection. He is a former Marine and knows how to handle weapons so it's not like there is a threat to the public. The story leading up to him being charged was some youts approached him while he was in his truck in a threatening way and he put the gun on the dash, they left and he went home. Unbeknownst to him they followed him to his house and called the police on him. After the cops heard his side of the story they put the cuffs on him and off to the pokey he went. Now mind you no weapon was discharged and he feared for his personal safety in his statement to the officer. Well he's had three court appearances so far and another one scheduled. Don't know how much he's spent on lawyers but I'm sure it's a pretty penny. He lives not too far from where this happened and this is an area that is known for drug dealing and to get to his house he had to drive thru the area. So the druggies walk free, he's fighting in court to stay out of jail and I'm pretty sure he just screwed up his ability to ever own a gun. Oh I forgot, when I asked him why didn't he just lie to the police about having the gun he said he wasn't going to lie to the police because a man is only good as his word. In retrospect he should have bought a half oz of pot and the cops would have arrested him, dropped the gun charge charged him with a misdemeanor and suspended the six month incarceration. And he would be over and done with this foolishness.

This /\ /\ /\ is where my cynicism falls. Being honest with integrity is just a waste of time.

Bikebreath · Jan 30, 2020

danb said:
It is the silly season in Annapolis (a$$holes are in session), and you have 9 posts, and you volunteer that it might be safe to flout the law based on a Facebook post.

Maryland needs help, for sure, but not the kind that starts with a suggestion to ignore the law based on a Facebook post.

The troll was very hungry

RoadDawg · Jan 30, 2020

Bikebreath said:
Do you agree with the following statement: A white senior citizen in Baltimore City gets arrested for illegally carrying for self defense will go to trail and get max or close to max sentence.

Good question.

JerseyMike said:
Insufficient facts to form an opinion on the case since I have no relevant details other than an individual was arrested for illegally carrying a firearm.

I believe that I can give you the facts on that.

Bikebreath gave you an example which is a good one.

In his scenario... the described person
• would most likely have no other charges to defend against.
• is most likely going to be employed.
• is not of a PC protected race/gender
Therefore. BOOK’EM DANO.

The normal arrestee in B’moe is going to
• most likely have multiple charges
• be unemployed/under employed
• be a member of a PC protected minority
• be a repeat offender to the extent that the courts are saying “What’s the use?”
Therefore, charges are getting dropped in a plea deal in return for an easy conviction on lessor offenses.

Bikebreath · Jan 30, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Good question.

I believe that I can give you the facts on that.

Bikebreath gave you an example which is a good one.

In his scenario... the described person
• would most likely have no other charges to defend against.
• is most likely going to be employed.
• is not of a PC protected race/gender
Therefore. BOOK’EM DANO.

The normal arrestee in B’moe is going to
• most likely have multiple charges
• be unemployed/under employed
• be a member of a PC protected minority
• be a repeat offender to the extent that the courts are saying “What’s the use?”
Therefore, charges are getting dropped in a plea deal in return for an easy conviction on lessor offenses.

That’s how I see it. They will need to make an example of this otherwise law abiding citizen, so we don’t have ”vigilantism.“ Heaven forbid there are less innocent victims in the city.

Matlack · Jan 30, 2020

JerseyMike said:
If they plead guilty it will almost always be to a lesser charge. The state will generally “overcharge” an individual initially, meaning they will bring any feasible charges against them, regardless of the strength/chances of success on those charges. Then the state will offer a plea to lesser charges to entice the defendant to accept the plea in order to: (1) get a guaranteed conviction; (2) move on to the next case. Many defense attorneys then lean on their client to accept the first plea that comes along, selling it as “you could face all of this but if you take this great deal now you’ll only face x”.

Defendants *generally* have no incentive to accept a plea to the harshest penalty offenses laid out in the charging document. There are exceptions, but most would roll the dice and go to trial rather than plea out to the harshest offense just to get the acceptance of responsibility sentencing credit.

If a firearm is involved the state will generally seek a plea that will make the defendant a “disqualified person” moving forward. Why wouldn’t the state seek to make them a disqualified person? If the facts surrounding the gun are really bad for the state. Examples: the police seize a firearm due to what will almost certainly be determined an illegal search, or it is a very weak constructive possession case. If the defendant is already a prohibited person they generally could care less about it and that doesn’t even calculate into their decision-making process for a plea.

After sitting in court for 2 years due to being a witness to a crime, I will refudiate almost everything you are saying. Most of what you describe is total BS. It wasnt my first time either. Chargers were always spot on. Saying they over charge, hogwash. That's a lawyer talking. If you did the crime, you were charged with it. I watched repeatedly people walking scot free for no reason. Part of that was due to the judges. Many judges just let people go for no apparent reason. Theft from ederly, theft from children’s groups, theft in general, theft using handguns and knives, spousal abuse, drunk driving, drugs, robberies, breaking protective orders and physically assaulting the person, etc. Pretty much any crime you can think of, people were let off scot free by the judge. In every case the plea was to virtually nothing. I literally watched defense lawyers and prosecutors negotiate over what to plea too. Literally watched once where the defense lawyer said to drop the charge of a guy using a firearm to steal over 5K to theft under 500 or something and all other other charges dropped. He walked out that day with time served. I watched the guy who violated a permanent protective order, broke into her parents home and beat his ex baby momma also walk out that day with time served and dropped all protective order violations, I think it was dropped to simple assault. I watched guy who stole over $50k from an elderly person and admitted to it, all charges dropped by the prosecutors. I watched a 20 something with multiple drunk driving violations who rammed her car into a building, PBJ all because she told the judge she had learned her lesson.

I get it, the courts are overflowing and prosecutors are trying to get everything moved along. They "dont have time" should never be uttered to anyone affected by a crime. It sickened me watch. One case I was involved with, a woman stealing from a Cub Scouts, literally required me to fight with multiple prosecutors, a new one every court date, and begging a judge to help because the bank refused to reimburse them and this would have shut them down. The prosecutors lost the file the police sent them including her questioning where she changed her story multiple times. She laughed at us because the prosecutor knocked down the amount she stole and only had to repay about 1/3 of what she stole. Another plea and dropped most of the charges. The judge was actually good about this one and made her pay us back. The game her and the defense attorney played, they pushed it a bit too far, pissed the judge off.

All that being said, doesnt excuse the state of the judicial system in this country. However, MD is one of the worst. I have seen other jurisdictions not accept the same BS as I have seen in MD. Only in MD have I seen someone given a 10 year sentence and all but 6 months suspended and then let allowed to walk out with time served. That doesnt mean it doesnt happen in other places like NY and CA.

RoadDawg · Jan 31, 2020

Matlack said:
After sitting in court for 2 years due to being a witness to a crime, I will refudiate almost everything you are saying. Most of what you describe is total BS. It wasnt my first time either. Chargers were always spot on. Saying they over charge, hogwash. That's a lawyer talking. If you did the crime, you were charged with it. I watched repeatedly people walking scot free for no reason. Part of that was due to the judges. Many judges just let people go for no apparent reason. Theft from ederly, theft from children’s groups, theft in general, theft using handguns and knives, spousal abuse, drunk driving, drugs, robberies, breaking protective orders and physically assaulting the person, etc. Pretty much any crime you can think of, people were let off scot free by the judge. In every case the plea was to virtually nothing. I literally watched defense lawyers and prosecutors negotiate over what to plea too. Literally watched once where the defense lawyer said to drop the charge of a guy using a firearm to steal over 5K to theft under 500 or something and all other other charges dropped. He walked out that day with time served. I watched the guy who violated a permanent protective order, broke into her parents home and beat his ex baby momma also walk out that day with time served and dropped all protective order violations, I think it was dropped to simple assault. I watched guy who stole over $50k from an elderly person and admitted to it, all charges dropped by the prosecutors. I watched a 20 something with multiple drunk driving violations who rammed her car into a building, PBJ all because she told the judge she had learned her lesson.

I get it, the courts are overflowing and prosecutors are trying to get everything moved along. They "dont have time" should never be uttered to anyone affected by a crime. It sickened me watch. One case I was involved with, a woman stealing from a Cub Scouts, literally required me to fight with multiple prosecutors, a new one every court date, and begging a judge to help because the bank refused to reimburse them and this would have shut them down. The prosecutors lost the file the police sent them including her questioning where she changed her story multiple times. She laughed at us because the prosecutor knocked down the amount she stole and only had to repay about 1/3 of what she stole. Another plea and dropped most of the charges. The judge was actually good about this one and made her pay us back. The game her and the defense attorney played, they pushed it a bit too far, pissed the judge off.

All that being said, doesnt excuse the state of the judicial system in this country. However, MD is one of the worst. I have seen other jurisdictions not accept the same BS as I have seen in MD. Only in MD have I seen someone given a 10 year sentence and all but 6 months suspended and then let allowed to walk out with time served. That doesnt mean it doesnt happen in other places like NY and CA.

Thank you... I was going to answer him but you said everything I was going to say... and did a great job saying it. :thumbsup:

It’s almost like we were in the same court room. If the punishment ever starts fitting the crime in this state... that is the day crime will start dropping.

Matlack · Jan 31, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Thank you... I was going to answer him but you said everything I was going to say... and did a great job saying it. It’s almost like we were in the same court room. If the punishment ever starts fitting the crime in this state... that is the day crime will start dropping.

That was just Glen Burnie. I've seen mostly the same things in Howard County, Baltimore City and Baltimore County.

DCSCO · Jan 31, 2020

danb said:
Someone who claims to be from Florida with a low post count (8) says we should carry based on the internet rumor people are not prosecuted. All during the height of the legislative session.

Why feed the troll?

I read it as OP asking if the stated condition is true and extrapolated that race based prosecution could be a civil rights issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

28Shooter · Jan 31, 2020

squaregrouper said:
In Baltimore City, Sundazes hit the nail on the head.
Baltimore has a revolving door judicial system where nolle prosque/drop charges is very common for things such as armed robbery or carjacking.

Yep!

Please answer this for me.....

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