CC On Private (my) Property Question

28Shooter · Jul 24, 2017

lazarus said:
It is an easement. You own the dirt under the sidewalk, but the sidewalk itself is city propert. BGE runs lines through your property and they get an easement. Easement says the property owner is limited in what they can do with their property (easy now ).

I would not want to try to fight something in court of you doing something "on county property" that is on your real estate.

Not necessarily, very often sidewalks are built in the fee simple or dedicated right of way which means you don't "own the dirt"/property on which the sidewalk is built.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 24, 2017

If we were to adjust the conversation slightly from " what is legal " to " what is wise, and reasonably prudent " , the answer is : Discreet Concealed .

Biggfoot44 · Jul 24, 2017

Added - The publicly owned right of way is expressed as X number of feet from the centerline of the street . I'm not feeling up to researching the exact distance for unincorporated MoCo , but for suburbs where there are sidewalks, it almost always includes the sidewalk .

Yeah, its not Fair, and quasi socialist that you are required to mow and shovel property you don't actually own , but that train left the station a long time ago .

rbird7282 · Jul 24, 2017

HankR said:
You're about twenty years late with that statement.

Or thirty five.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DanGuy48 · Jul 24, 2017

I just quickly skimmed this, and IANAL so correct me if I'm wrong, but being outside your home means Maryland's limited castle doctrine does not apply and you have a duty to retreat. So, be careful.

lazarus · Jul 24, 2017

danb said:
Neither do I have a problem. But those scenarios are all different than the one I described in a crucial way. Generally people do not call and ask permission for legal activities. And if you have to ask....

"Concealed" means just that. If you are going to announce it in advance, may as well lean a shotgun against the tree in the yard.

Nah, you want to be in control of it. Sit with it in your lap and rack it occasionally, grab the shell and stick it back in the tube.

danb · Jul 24, 2017

lazarus said:
Nah, you want to be in control of it. Sit with it in your lap and rack it occasionally, grab the shell and stick it back in the tube.

Maybe do tricks like I've seen in Demo ranch videos?

ironpony · Jul 24, 2017

Having been approached by LEO's several times while on the ATV, they say 12' off the road is there's and we can confiscate/tow/ticket (Kind officer said there are some a-holes on the force, move along.). If they can do this for a motorized vehicle I am sure they may try it with a firearm.

AlanInSilverSpring · Jul 24, 2017

danb said:
Maybe do tricks like I've seen in Demo ranch videos?

I think I'll pass on doing any "tricks" for a while :innocent0

danb · Jul 24, 2017

Here is the Demo ranch video:

Some cool ideas for what to do with stuff you cannot sell at the yard sale.

MikeTF · Jul 24, 2017

danb said:
Here is the Demo ranch video:

He would make a great neighbor and friend!

danb · Jul 24, 2017

MikeTF said:
He would make a great neighbor and friend!

And also, vet if my dogs were sick.

lazarus · Jul 24, 2017

MikeTF said:
He would make a great neighbor and friend!

Heck yeah.

lazarus · Jul 24, 2017

ironpony said:
Having been approached by LEO's several times while on the ATV, they say 12' off the road is there's and we can confiscate/tow/ticket (Kind officer said there are some a-holes on the force, move along.). If they can do this for a motorized vehicle I am sure they may try it with a firearm.

Any rural route or highway. Probably. If not more. Of course running right in front of houses and stuff, most likely not. Though like along 32 between 70 and Sykesville, one side the state owns about 30-40 feet and then just a small amount on the other.

BW460 · Jul 24, 2017

Much of what has been said about "property" in this thread is either wrong or only partially correct. I do this for a living. There are, primarily, three types of roads. Those that are a fee simple purchase, are "owned" by the city, county, state , whatever. Generally, but not always, State Roads are fee simple and the state owns them so your ownership stops at the right of way line. The sidewalk doesn't have anything to do with it. The sidewalk can be either inside or outside the right of way. Most, but not all, city and county roads are "dedicated". In Maryland, a dedicated road is an easement. Regardless, whether your property is an acreage parcel or a platted lot in a subdivision, if the road is dedicated, then you own the land under the pavement and the road exists as an easement. The third type of road is a prescriptive easement. You see this a lot in rural areas. In this case, the road was neither purchased or dedicated, it just exists. In this case, since the road is an easement, you also own the land under the pavement. All of this is regardless of what your deed says. I am not giving anyone legal advice, but the fact is that, unless you live on a State Road, there is a high probability that you own the bed of the road in front of your house out to the center of the road. Again, it doesn't matter what your deed says. It is also regardless of what you have been paying taxes on. So, most of us know that it is legal to carry on your own "property". But, many of us also know that the police officers often don't know what the law is. My guess is that if you are standing at the curb with a Glock on your belt, you will be arrested. However, because of what I just said about ownership of the road, you might find this to be a defense. But, also keep in mind that some judges don't know the law either. Personally, I wouldn't test this. If you are going to carry on your property, you need to find out exactly where the right of way line is and don't assume it is marked by the sidewalk. Cops will assume that the road and sidewalk belongs to them.

Sundazes · Jul 24, 2017

BW460 said:
Much of what has been said about "property" in this thread is either wrong or only partially correct. I do this for a living. There are, primarily, three types of roads. Those that are a fee simple purchase, are "owned" by the city, county, state , whatever. Generally, but not always, State Roads are fee simple and the state owns them so your ownership stops at the right of way line. The sidewalk doesn't have anything to do with it. The sidewalk can be either inside or outside the right of way. Most, but not all, city and county roads are "dedicated". In Maryland, a dedicated road is an easement. Regardless, whether your property is an acreage parcel or a platted lot in a subdivision, if the road is dedicated, then you own the land under the pavement and the road exists as an easement. The third type of road is a prescriptive easement. You see this a lot in rural areas. In this case, the road was neither purchased or dedicated, it just exists. In this case, since the road is an easement, you also own the land under the pavement. All of this is regardless of what your deed says. I am not giving anyone legal advice, but the fact is that, unless you live on a State Road, there is a high probability that you own the bed of the road in front of your house out to the center of the road. Again, it doesn't matter what your deed says. It is also regardless of what you have been paying taxes on. So, most of us know that it is legal to carry on your own "property". But, many of us also know that the police officers often don't know what the law is. My guess is that if you are standing at the curb with a Glock on your belt, you will be arrested. However, because of what I just said about ownership of the road, you might find this to be a defense. But, also keep in mind that some judges don't know the law either. Personally, I wouldn't test this. If you are going to carry on your property, you need to find out exactly where the right of way line is and don't assume it is marked by the sidewalk. Cops will assume that the road and sidewalk belongs to them.

Thanks for the info. How does one find out for sure?

molonlabe · Jul 24, 2017

ras_oscar said:
Or be pre-emptive. Call the local Leos, tell them you are having a yard sale and intend to do so on your property armed. If you're lucky they will announce it at morning roll call and educate the young officers with less experience. You might even get a few more customers. Anything to assist in reducing nuisance calls to the station is a good thing as far as I can tell.

So far I read up to here, my first concern would be swatting as the Buckeye firearms association called it. This is gunsamerica.com.
The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has a very simple message for citizens who see a gun owner exercising his Constitutional right to keep and bear arms in public: If you doubt their intent, call the police.

“If you see someone carrying a firearm in public—openly or concealed—and have ANY doubts about their intent, call 911 immediately and ask police to come to the scene,” says the CSGV on its Facebook page. “Never put your safety, or the safety of your loved ones, at the mercy of weak gun laws that arm individuals in public with little or no criminal and/or mental health screening.”

Two incidents come to mind. The AH kid who called the police that someone was brandishing a firearm at Wallmart. He was shot and killed and no charges were brought against the 18 yr old. ( it was a pellet gun he was buying) and the Guy shot legally carrying coming out of a Home Depot. These people are sick and killing someone especially a gun owner means nothing to them. Hence they are mentally ill. The left seems to attract a lot of them.

BW460 · Jul 25, 2017

"Thanks for the info. How does one find out for sure?"

To be sure, you need to hire a licensed land surveyor to mark your front property line and ask them if the road is dedicated or owned in fee simple by the governing body. If you live in a platted subdivision, get a copy of the record plat. If the text on the road says "hereby dedicated to public use", then the road is an easement. Also, sometimes in the owner's dedication on the plat, they will say they are dedicating the roads to public use. Again, keep in mind that none of this will keep you from getting arrested, but it "MIGHT" give you a defense, but don't count on it in this F'ed up State. Most people are amazed when they find out just how far the right of way line is from the curb. Most think their lot line goes to the curb, but it never does. If you live in a platted subdivision, again, look at the record plat. It will tell you the width of the road. Divide that number by 2 and measure from the center of the pavement. That will get you close but is not definitive. For example, if it is a 60' wide right of way, measure 30' from the center of the road and that is approximately where your lot line is. If you live in a rural area, you are going to have to talk to a surveyor. Also know that if you live in a Townhouse, the roads are all private so you better stay on your lot.

lazarus · Jul 25, 2017

BW460 said:
"Thanks for the info. How does one find out for sure?"

To be sure, you need to hire a licensed land surveyor to mark your front property line and ask them if the road is dedicated or owned in fee simple by the governing body. If you live in a platted subdivision, get a copy of the record plat. If the text on the road says "hereby dedicated to public use", then the road is an easement. Also, sometimes in the owner's dedication on the plat, they will say they are dedicating the roads to public use. Again, keep in mind that none of this will keep you from getting arrested, but it "MIGHT" give you a defense, but don't count on it in this F'ed up State. Most people are amazed when they find out just how far the right of way line is from the curb. Most think their lot line goes to the curb, but it never does. If you live in a platted subdivision, again, look at the record plat. It will tell you the width of the road. Divide that number by 2 and measure from the center of the pavement. That will get you close but is not definitive. For example, if it is a 60' wide right of way, measure 30' from the center of the road and that is approximately where your lot line is. If you live in a rural area, you are going to have to talk to a surveyor. Also know that if you live in a Townhouse, the roads are all private so you better stay on your lot.

I am on a rural round in Ho Co (not a state route) and my surveyor drawing shows my property line ending about 5ft from the end of my drive way and the road is marked 50'R/W

All other setbacks and utility easements are clearly marked, but no easements marked for the road. The county platt doesn't show the road as being part of my property nor does it appear to be part of my across the street neighbor's.

No clue on the age of the road, but predates the house by quite a bit. My house as built in '61 and my across the street neighbor's house was 80s sometime.

d33rhunt3r · Jul 27, 2017

Minuteman said:
Yep.

Yep. Sometimes there might be some detail or technical issue that could change this but in a word, I agree, and believe you (OP) asked us about this in person yesterday, I didn't know these yardsale details. Generally I recommend concealed carry over open carry, and knowing you, that's probably a good idea.

Also (little disclaimer)- and I know you know this, but others will read this so - always good to consult an attorney, and nothing you read here constitutes legal advice, even if it's from an attorney unless you establish an agreement with them.

Another good idea, if that's an invitation, feel free to PM me the day/time and I'll see if we can make it, we like yard sales.

Yard sale......hmmmmmm.............. now I'm interested as well.

CC On Private (my) Property Question

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