FINALLY - Hogans letter concerning HB1302

ddeanjohnson · Apr 19, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
So this is where we are: between now and May 9th, Gov. Hogan can act to sign the Red Flag bill and make it law with his blessing, or veto the bill to kill it. On May 10th the bill automatically becomes law if Hogan takes no action. . . .So between now and May 9th, the window is open to convince Gov. Hogan that vetoeing the bill will not affect his re-election chances.

The time "window" might be a little longer than that. The 30-day clock did not start running on the last day of the legislative session (April 9). It starts running whenever House Bill 1302 is formally transmitted ("presented") to the governor's office -- and as of this morning (April 19), that had not yet occurred. The deadline for "presentment" is April 28.

Beginning at the time of presentment, the governor has up to 30 days to sign the bill or veto it, so May 28 is the latest possible deadline for action by the governor (but the deadline is sooner if presentment occurs prior to April 28, as seems likely). If the governor takes no action, the bill becomes law without his signature 30 days after presentment.

Of course, the presentment and definitive action by the governor -- signing or veto -- could occur very close together, even on the same day, I suppose.

If the bill is not vetoed, it will take effect on October 1, 2018.

j_h_smith · Apr 19, 2018

ddeanjohnson said:
The time "window" might be a little longer than that. The 30-day clock did not start running on the last day of the legislative session (April 9). It starts running whenever House Bill 1302 is formally transmitted ("presented") to the governor's office -- and as of this morning (April 19), that had not yet occurred. The deadline for "presentment" is April 28.

Beginning at the time of presentment, the governor has up to 30 days to sign the bill or veto it, so May 28 is the latest possible deadline for action by the governor (but the deadline is sooner if presentment occurs prior to April 28, as seems likely). If the governor takes no action, the bill becomes law without his signature 30 days after presentment.

Of course, the presentment and definitive action by the governor -- signing or veto -- could occur very close together, even on the same day, I suppose.

If the bill is not vetoed, it will take effect on October 1, 2018.

Is it at all possible that this Bill is never presented to the governor? I suppose if that occurs, then the Bill is DEAD?

I hope.. I hope... I hope!

iH8DemLibz · Apr 19, 2018

^^^If a unicorn craps candy, does it taste like rainbows?^^^

Bountied · Apr 19, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
^^^If a unicorn craps candy, does it taste like rainbows?^^^

What do rainbows taste like? Chicken?

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

Thank you so much ddeanjohnson for this clarification!

My timeline for the “HB1302 signing window” came from from former MSI President Dan Blasberg, who said after the rally that HB1302 was “sent over” to Hogan the day after Sine Die.

I should have checked myself. My apologies, and again thanks. This longer timeframe raises some VERY interesting political issues considering that a veto would now be so close to the primary election season as to reduce the threat that the legislature would go back into special session to override a veto, IMHO.

ETA: Apparently there are misunderstandings about when bills are printed and carted to the Governor's office on the second floor of the State House, and when there is legal "presentment".

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

j_h_smith said:
Is it at all possible that this Bill is never presented to the governor? I suppose if that occurs, then the Bill is DEAD?

I hope.. I hope... I hope!

What mechanism would there be not to present? It's a product of the MGA session, “having reached a constitutional majority”.

I understand that with hundreds or a thousand bills, they have that window to meter them out, but to not present--I can't see that because who or what would authorize MGA work product to be shi'tcanned?

j_h_smith · Apr 19, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
What mechanism would there be not to present? It's a product of the MGA session, “having reached a constitutional majority”.

I understand that with hundreds or a thousand bills, they have that window to meter them out, but to not present--I can't see that because who or what would authorize MGA work product to be shi'tcanned?

It was just wishful thinking. Ya gotta give me a chance to dream once in awhile....

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

On this day, 243 years ago, a hardy and committed bunch of Patriots changed the world.

The Shot Heard Round The World!

eruby · Apr 19, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
On this day, 243 years ago, a hardy and committed bunch of Patriots changed the world.

The Shot Heard Round The World!

S. E. Hinton nods.

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

Although there is a chance for the HB1302 "signing window" to stretch as far as May 28th, there is info from several sources that Gov. Hogan may complete his bill signing ceremonies on May 15th.

East2West · Apr 19, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
On this day, 243 years ago, a hardy and committed bunch of Patriots changed the world.

The Shot Heard Round The World!

And 243 years later we have allowed our government to be run by career politicians who spend without caution and erode our rights daily. My goodness how far this country had fallen. If I had the ability I'd love nothing more than to bring some of the founders back to view what we've become and see their reactions.

fred55 · Apr 19, 2018

So why would this bill be presented at a different time from the other bills? Could there be a modification of this bill after Sine Die and before its presented to Hogan?

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

No chance that it can be altered or changed in any way.

Often bill-signing is done by category to help the media focus and process the subject matter.

Just because HB1302 final vote occurred just 2 hours before the end of the 2018 session does not mean it will be signed last.

There is political maneuvering with bill-signing, with the Governor’s people angling to have Hogan appear as bi-partisan as possible in an election year.

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

The MGA officially has 20 days to “present” Hogan with a bill, and Hogan has 30 days max to decide to sign, to veto, or to let it become law without his signature.

ddeanjohnson · Apr 19, 2018

j_h_smith said:
Is it at all possible that this Bill is never presented to the governor? I suppose if that occurs, then the Bill is DEAD?
I hope.. I hope... I hope!

Possible? Our star, the Sun, is not massive enough to go nova. But the unexpected impact of an asteroid of ten miles or more in diameter anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere, prior to presentment, might interfere with the process of presentment. I suppose that the bill would, in that case, be dead. However . . .

dblas · Apr 19, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Thank you so much ddeanjohnson for this clarification!

My timeline for the “HB1302 signing window” came from from former MSI President Dan Blasberg, who said after the rally that HB1302 was “sent over” to Hogan the day after Sine Die.

I should have checked myself. My apologies, and again thanks. This longer timeframe raises some VERY interesting political issues considering that a veto would now be so close to the primary election season as to reduce the threat that the legislature would go back into special session to override a veto, IMHO.

ETA: Apparently there are misunderstandings about when bills are printed and carted to the Governor's office on the second floor of the State House, and when there is legal "presentment".

Yep, I was speaking to being printed and moved to the 2nd floor, not actual presentment. Sorry for any confusion.

Rack&Roll · Apr 19, 2018

Please flood Governor Hogan's mailbox and Facebook pages with the link and excerpts of the quoted article below!

In a USA Today newspaper opinion piece put up just hours ago (and one that could easily have been written by MSI President Mark Pennak here in Maryland), Michael Hammond, the Legislative Counsel for Gun Owners of America, breaks down the unlawful "Kafkaesque" foundation for RED FLAG already enacted in six states.

Gun Owners of America is a pro-gun rights organization representing more than 1.5 million people

Red flag laws let police confiscate guns without due process. Suspending the Constitution in a secret hearing is a Rubicon from which there is no return.

But this is exactly what is at stake with Gun Confiscation Orders — cynically disguised as "red flag laws."

Six states have enacted these laws. At their core, they allow the police to convene a Kafkaesque secret proceeding, in which an American can be stripped of his or her gun rights and Fourth Amendment rights, even though gun owners are barred from participating in the hearings or arguing their side of the dispute.

The first thing gun owners learn is when police knock on the door — ready to ransack their house and, if they resist, to arrest or even shoot them and their family.

The standard is not whether there is probable cause to believe that the gun owner has committed a crime, as the Constitution would seem to require. Rather, the standard is some subjective determination about whether the owner represents some "danger."

As in the film Minority Report, Americans are stripped of their fundamental constitutional rights based on the subjective possibility of a "future crime." And we know from our limited experience that many accusers lie or make mistakes — even more reach delusional conclusions — and the target is frequently an abused victim who is most in need of the wherewithal to protect against an abuser.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...rights-violate-constitution-column/526221002/

Allen65 · Apr 19, 2018

The continued silence on Red Flag from the MD ACLU is deafening.

The National ACLU says:
"So-called “red flag laws,” which provide for protective orders to remove guns from people who pose a significant risk to themselves or others, can also be a reasonable way to further public safety. To be constitutional, however, they must at a minimum have clear, nondiscriminatory criteria for defining persons as dangerous and a fair process for those affected to object and be heard by a court."

https://www.aclu.org/blog/mobilization/aclus-position-gun-control

I guess the MD chapter is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of the MD Democratic Party.

danb · Apr 20, 2018

Allen65 said:
I guess the MD chapter is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of the MD Democratic Party.

ACLU has become a partisan organization. They now only defend civil liberties like attorney-client privilege when it pertains to Dems.

Rack&Roll · Apr 20, 2018

It’s a beautiful day, so we will be conducting a sign event right in front of Hogan’s house starting at 2 PM for 60 to 90 minutes. We caught Governor Hogan exiting for an event the other day, which is our goal – – to show him that the outrage over HB 1302 has not dissipated.

If you can, please join us to hold Veto signs for the red flag Bill starting at 2 PM!

FINALLY - Hogans letter concerning HB1302

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