Muzzle brake timing

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    danb

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Most advice, especially doled out here, is for a brake to time it at 9/3 o'clock. https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=171677

    If it has ports on top, 9-12-3 o'clock. With 24.8756 ft lbs of torque and Rocksett not loctite, naturally.

    The consequences of not doing this seem vague. Bad Stuff Happens, or something.

    However I have found a few sources that suggest offset timing. None other that Miculek, and a video by Tubbs as well.

    about the 3 minute mark:


    Miculek says to time it depending on whether the shooter is right or left handed.

    Tubbs and another article I found says to time it based on the twist - i.e. time the brake to counter force due the rifle twist.

    What do people think of this? Anyone do this? I cannot imagine the force due to the rotation of the barrel is big, I have never even noticed it. Maybe this is useful for a big caliber like 50 BMG or a tank.

    Miculek advice seems more useful (time it based on shooting), but again, I cannot imagine it makes a big difference.
     
    alucard0822

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,709
    PA
    You can time or adjust a comp for lateral movement, plenty of shooters do. In many cases recoil pushes the rifle away from your support hand slightly, and some of the gas redirected to counter muzzle rise is used to counter lateral movement. That is where his idea comes from, but comps can vary quite a bit on how much force they push the muzzle down with. Clocking it a bit can work, but it can give too much lateral push, or increase muzzle rise, and then it works against you if you shoot from the other shoulder. Here is another way to tune for it http://www.brownells.com/GunTech/Custom-Tuning-the-Rolling-Thunder-Compensator/detail.htm?lid=14873.

    Personally I shoot from weak side enough, and the M4-72 comp on my 18" 3gun rifle pretty much has 0 muzzle movement with my stance that I didn't bother clocking it, shot plenty of matches with it, and if my score is slow, it's not the rifle's fault. The Y I had on another rifle did have a tiny bit, I opened up the port a little on the right side and top, and it helped. Any benefit will vary substantially by the rifle, shooter, ammo and purpose.
     
    smokey

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,534
    I'd say the best is to set up a camera with slow-mo(most cell-phones now) at about the 1 oclock position on a stand, or directly over the shooter's shoulder. Shoot a few shots like you normally do and see where the muzzle goes. I've found that some comps actually push down too much and press the muzzle down off-target rather than having it rise up off target. You should also be able to see if you need to cant the muzzle device in one direction or the other based on lateral movement. Everyone's different and now most guns are too. Gather observable data, make an adjustment...gather more data...and see what works for you.
     
    P

    photoracer

    Competition Shooter
    Oct 22, 2010
    3,318
    West Virginia
    Jerry is correct because how you hold it will tend to offset the recoil and muzzle rise slightly non-vertical. That is why all the effective 3-gun comps have a few tiny holes on top and big ones on the side. Because too many big ones on top will actually drive the barrel down instead of keeping it flat. It needs to be offset a little to the side based on your hand hold on the rifle.
     
    drive_accord_ingly

    drive_accord_ingly

    Active Member
    Aug 1, 2007
    656
    MoCo
    danb said:
    Most advice, especially doled out here, is for a brake to time it at 9/3 o'clock. https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=171677



    about the 3 minute mark:

    What do people think of this? Anyone do this? I cannot imagine the force due to the rotation of the barrel is big, I have never even noticed it. Maybe this is useful for a big caliber like 50 BMG or a tank. ....
    Click to expand...

    Tanks don't need to time their muzzle breaks, the MRS and the Ballistic computer takes care of that.
     
    clandestine

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    Squaring the brake up is the baseline. You start there.

    Fine tuning as shown by Jerry is something that 99 out of 100 shooters will never notice. Lots of guys who try that with threaded lock rings f up the threads.

    Nice sarcasm in the O.P. about my previous advice.
     
    clandestine

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    photoracer said:
    Jerry is correct because how you hold it will tend to offset the recoil and muzzle rise slightly non-vertical. That is why all the effective 3-gun comps have a few tiny holes on top and big ones on the side. Because too many big ones on top will actually drive the barrel down instead of keeping it flat. It needs to be offset a little to the side based on your hand hold on the rifle.
    Click to expand...

    Agreed.

    Lots of people think big top ports on brakes are great to reduce muzzle rise on an AR. They dont realize that the human interface is what causes the muzzle to go up. The gun recoils straight back until the human interaction occurs.

    I have experienced guns with heavy top porting on the brake, cause the muzzle to dip when fired.

    Some people NEED lots of top porting because their shooting style or build does not manage recoil properly. Thus there is no one fits all brake.
     
    E

    EKing

    NRA Benefactor
    Aug 12, 2016
    192
    Sykesville
    From what I've read, the idea of offset timing came out decades ago to help keep the rifle firmly in the support hand during automatic fire. Some 3-gunners may be doing this for the perceived advantage when they are doing rapid fire, but like another person said; most people won't notice a difference.
     
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