Reloading goals

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    Somehow in the last year, the wife and I have become Enfield collectors. Thanks to the Axis v. Allies matches in Delta, we've harvested quite a bit of once fired .303 brass (mostly PPU). Now, what to do with it...

    First, I'd like to find a load that matches the factory ammo (174 gr), as that is what we've zeroed the rifles with. If anyone has a recipe to share to get me close, it would save having to start from scratch and work up. I'd like to use either Varget or H4895 because I have those powders on hand. Ideally, I like H4895 because of my second goal:

    Secondly, I'd like to develop a reduced recoil load (hence the H4895). Paper targets don't care how hard the bullet hits them, and I'm not ashamed to want to go easy on the brass, rifles, and our bodies. Ideally, I'd like to find a reduced load that will push a 125 gr bullet to the same point of impact as the full power 174 at 100 yds so we don't have to mess with our sights. Is that even possible? :shrug:

    The reason I suspect it may not be possible is that I've noticed the 150 gr factory ammo impacts a good bit lower than the 174. My understanding is that this is because the lighter, faster moving (and potentially less recoiling) bullet is exiting the barrel sooner in the recoil cycle and starting its journey to the target from a lower position to begin with. Can this be rectified with just less or slower burning powder, or is my magical target load pure fantasy?

    I'm not trying to match the full trajectories. I only want them to coincide at 100yds because that's the distance the vast majority of our matches will occur. To complicate things...I do not have a chronograph. :rolleyes:My intent is to save up for one of the fancy doppler ones...so I will not have a chronograph for a while :o My hope is that, for what I'm trying to achieve, knowing velocity is irrelevant. I'm interested in adjusting point of impact at a single distance...which I should only need my spotting scope to measure, right ;)

    I know that I should be (and I, eventually, will be) loading for each rifle for best results. At the moment, I want to start with a general base line that works ok for all of them. I also want to do the same thing for .30-06 (M2)...but figure I'll start with .303.

    Any guidance before I go blasting away hoping for a hit is appreciated.
    Thanks,
    --Art
     

    MG in MD

    Active Member
    Feb 11, 2016
    359
    Linthicum
    I’ve found that a heavier bullet will produced a lower felt recoil load, at least in pistol, so you might want to explore that option.

    Not sure about the bullet exiting earlier in the recoil cycle thing though. Never heard that.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    That's a semiauto pistol thing . A matter of bullet weight AND powder burning speed effecting the velocity curve on the slide.

    For rifles generally, and fixed breach particularly, more directly related to the actual momentum.

    A cpl years ago when the ammo mfg were promoting "managed recoil" hunting ammo , one of their advertising points was about point of impact.

    The 125gr .30cal loads at somewhat reduced velocity were purported to be impacting within 2 minutes of whitetail @ 100yds when sighted for their regular 150gr loads. I'd have to look up the specs , but their claims were 1/3 to 1/2 recoil reductions. Knowing the bullet weights, should take only cpl minutes with calculator to get aprox vels.

    **********

    I haven't made a project to seek this on purpose , but have followed this subject for years .

    Not the simple answer you are looking for , but the usual process is to first develope a reduced load within your velocity and accuraccy parameters , and then test for comparitive POI at various distances .

    If there is an easy or universal formula or rule of thumb , it has eluded many generations of advanced handloaders.

    Give things a try , but realize you probably will need to use two sight settings.

    **********

    Go ahead and save for a fancy doppler chrono eventually . But you will need a chrono now. Chronos start under $100 , and factory refurb Shooting Chrony are priced to be almost disposable .
     

    MG in MD

    Active Member
    Feb 11, 2016
    359
    Linthicum
    Interesting about the slide velocity. Knew it worked but didn’t really understand why. Though I do know that lower muzzle velocity combined with heavier bullet weight give a higher power factor, so i thought it was the lowered muzzle velocity that helped the recoil. Guess it all works together...

    However, heavier bullet and lower muzzle velocity would not end up with the same impact point I don’t think, right?

    So much to learn...
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    Like "better, faster, cheaper" - pick two. While it may be possible to work up a load that has the same POI at 100 yards using two different bullet weights and two different powders, it's not likely that both loads with have the optimal performance of the components at that point. In other words, if you worked up both separately to have the smallest groups, it's unlikely that you'll end up with a load that has the same point of impact using the different components. Could it happen? Maybe, but I think just getting the same POI from both combinations is going to be a challenge.

    Also, about range pickups. In case you haven't already found out, .303 has a notoriously short life span. So if your picking up someone else's cast offs they may look great but they may have been left behind because the previous owner knew he could only get a couple of firings out of each before they started separating.
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    The issue ammo and sights were made too match fairly closely. To get POI to equal POA at a 100 yards, you may have to develop a light load that works on the 200 yard elevation setting. Like with competition with AR15s, Garands and M1a rifles, the numbers become meaningless, you go for the setting that works with you best ammo.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    Thanks for all the replies. Yeah...I need the chrony:rolleyes: I'm still going for the "buy once, cry once" Labradar. I have enough Amazon points to get it pretty well under $500, and I almost went for it last week. I hesitated because, well, life has been expensive since Christmas and it would just be easier to swallow in the next billing cycle. I'm glad I waited, because now it looks like I need to focus on paying off my "used-to-be-NRA Visa" sooner than planned. If the mag ban passes, I'll be tightening my belt even more to put a down payment on some PA property...so, for now, this project is kinda benched :sad20:

    I'll probably play with the components I have and just work up a load with the 174 SMK's to approximate the POI of factory ammo and hold off on the light load for now. In the interest of stretching my existing resources, I'll be loading for universal economy rather than individual accuracy. My family includes more than a couple Enfields right now, and I just don't have the time or resources to work up loads for each. :o

    All my once fired brass has been harvested from new ammo by Katie or myself. I wouldn't trust range pickups

    As to the recoil...I was under the impression that the slower, heavier bullets spend more time in the barrel and it was at a higher line of sight when they exited the muzzle resulting in a higher point of impact. If that is not the case, it may lend hope to my magic light load, but it doesn't help my head wrap around why the 150grn factory ammo had a POI of probably 6 inches lower at 100yd than the 174 :shrug: It was out of the same rifle...though, now, I'm not 100% sure which :o SMLE, I think. We did have some zeroing issues at first. I have some of the 150's left...maybe I'll have to revisit...

    I was thinking, though. Different POI's for different loads may not be that bad. All of my rifles (and Katie's) have elevation adjustable rear sights. There is no way I could remember which rifle needed which sight setting for which ammo, but, once I figured it out, I could write it down and put notes inside the buttstock trap :shrug:

    We'll see how things work out. As awesome as moving to Free America sounds, the thought of having to do it so soon, and the sacrifices to my shooting lifestyle that would be needed to make that happen, really bums me out.:sad20:
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    I would agree with the others.

    Work up each load for accuracy, then figure out sight setting, then write it down.

    There is a thread here on reduced loads. 19 grains of Red Dot seems to be a sweet load for most rifle calibers.

    H4895 is 60% of the max load and work UP from there. There is a page on the Hodgdon site about this.

    The Garand guys shoot 125 grain bullets to get a light recoiling load, but with enough gas pressure to operate the action (not needed for bolt actions). They typically run about the same powder charge as the heavier bullets, but with the 125s.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,917
    Messages
    7,258,601
    Members
    33,348
    Latest member
    Eric_Hehl

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom