How many signatures would it take for these petition to matter.

Alexp08 · Nov 19, 2015

I've been seeing a lot of these petitions going around about concealed carry and I can't help to think that it's a rather fruitless effort based on the small number of signers.
Quick facts. Rough numbers here. Based off of 2024 census.

Roughly 5.6 million people in MD. Take out those under 21 who would not be able to conceal carry, that equals about 4.2 million
Take out older individuals I'd say 75+ years of age (this does not mean someone of that age would carry, just trying to get a better estimate) that takes us to about 4 million.

So 4 million people in Maryland of a age range to carry a concealed weapon.

Now another variable, those by law that cant. Criminals, probation, etc.

Based on a 2011 census, there were roughly 25k in prisons and another 70k on probation or parole. I'm going to roundo this up to 100k for the sake of the census being 4 years old. Next I'm going to triple it as many would be out of prison and of parole or probation or for other offenses that would keep them from owning a gun, so 300k that would by law not be able to have a weapon or carry permit.

So that makes 3.7million, of age and legally able to obrain a CCP.

To cover any variables I've missed I'm going to decrease that number to 3.5 million

Finally the petitions I've seen combined have roughly 30k signers. Compared to 3.5 million, that's not even 1 percent of Marylanders signing these petitions.

Don't get me wrong, times are getting rough I think those who are mentally competent and law abiding should be able to defend themselves, I just can't help to think that these petitions are not even going to make a dent. Without another few hundred thousand signers

Once again these are all rough numbers based on Internet sites.
https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-maryland
http://www.alec.org/initiatives/prison-overcrowding/prison-overcrowding-maryland/

protegeV · Nov 19, 2015

10 million electronic signatures and it still wouldn't matter...

iH8DemLibz · Nov 19, 2015

That's impossible.

Gun owners got Hogan elected.

Tomcat · Nov 19, 2015

The next general assembly meetings are a little over 2 months away. If the 25K who signed these petitions would start calling, mailing and e-mailing their representatives as well as the others on the subject NOW, it might have some impact. By the time February rolls around Paris will no longer be in the headlines.

Here are some links to help out:

Find your Legislators here http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmmain.aspx?pid=legisrpage&tab=subject6

The Civic Action Email System will help you e-mail any or all of the Legislators or committees http://actionmail.ksconline.net/

Blacksmith101 · Nov 20, 2015

The numbers that matter are not the total number of potential license holders.

The number that matters to the legislature in Maryland is how many signers are registered Democratic voters. BECOME A DINO! When you call or write your representatives they do check to see if you are in their district and what your voter registration is.

Muleskinner · Nov 20, 2015

Sign all the petitions you want, meet with the anti gun delegates and senators, rally at lawyer's mall, throw yourself on the ground and hold your breath....Until those who desire a "shall issue" law understand the mentality of the liberals who run this state, It's not going to happen. Mike and Mike are the Alpha and Omega of what bills come out of committee and which ones of those do get passed into law...they, along with AG Frosh dictate gun laws in this state and all 3 tow the party line with an iron fist. There is an encyclopedia of proof the concealed carry saves lives and decreases crime...That doesn't matter to liberal democrats because their agenda is about power and control...neither of which they can completely achieve until guns are removed from the hands of law abiding patriots...Many here think they can ultimately wear down the politicians....nope....not going to happen...so sign all the petitions you'd like...wring your hands, whine to your delegate, march on Annapolis...2 things need to happen before you stand a chance in hell of getting legal, easily obtainable concealed carry in Maryland...the "wear them down" mentality needs to be shit canned and Mike Mike and Brian need to be removed from office...neither of which will probably happen...

dblas · Nov 20, 2015

Muleskinner said:
Sign all the petitions you want, meet with the anti gun delegates and senators, rally at lawyer's mall, throw yourself on the ground and hold your breath....Until those who desire a "shall issue" law understand the mentality of the liberals who run this state, It's not going to happen. Mike and Mike are the Alpha and Omega of what bills come out of committee and which ones of those do get passed into law...they, along with AG Frosh dictate gun laws in this state and all 3 tow the party line with an iron fist. There is an encyclopedia of proof the concealed carry saves lives and decreases crime...That doesn't matter to liberal democrats because their agenda is about power and control...neither of which they can completely achieve until guns are removed from the hands of law abiding patriots...Many here think they can ultimately wear down the politicians....nope....not going to happen...so sign all the petitions you'd like...wring your hands, whine to your delegate, march on Annapolis...2 things need to happen before you stand a chance in hell of getting legal, easily obtainable concealed carry in Maryland...the "wear them down" mentality needs to be shit canned and Mike Mike and Brian need to be removed from office...neither of which will probably happen...

So what would you suggest in the meantime, since elections aren't until 2018 to replace the beer brothers and Brian?

Muleskinner · Nov 20, 2015

dblas said:
So what would you suggest in the meantime, since elections aren't until 2018 to replace the beer brothers and Brian?

nothing...according to the powers that be at MSI all of my ideas are illegal or have been tried. There can't be anymore court challenges, the NRA has all but given up and our last hope was Hogan and Pallozi but Hogan turned out to be anti gun or at least unwilling to try (which in my opinion is the same thing) I have no ideas...but trying the same failed tactics over and over is a symptom of insanity..The people of Maryland are sitting ducks, but apparently the majority like it that way...We are a small minority, and like it or not, that's the way this democracy thing works...

Now maybe if you could get several thousand minorities, handicapped people and women to carry our flag you could shame the PC culture into passing a more liberal concealed carry law..Liberals live for helping the under privileged..but old white guys? forget it..

Biggfoot44 · Nov 20, 2015

Internet petitions r worth the paper they r written upon.

25K people physicaly showing up once during the legisltive session would be big help in our defensive position.

What to do in meantime ? Generalized public outreach. At least 50% enemy territory ( vs trying to energize already on our side) .

dblas · Nov 20, 2015

Muleskinner said:
nothing...according to the powers that be at MSI all of my ideas are illegal or have been tried.

Refresh my memory of the ideas, especially since you are inviting me to speak at your gun club.

Muleskinner said:
There can't be anymore court challenges,

Not that challenge the same notion, no, so come up with a new angle other than what has already been done. That's just a matter of law, not saying it can't be done.

Muleskinner said:
the NRA has all but given up

Really, then why did I just have a planning meeting with the MRA-ILA rep and their lobbyist yesterday, along with AGC and MSRPA to make plans for the upcoming legislative session?

Muleskinner said:
and our last hope was Hogan and Pallozi but Hogan turned out to be anti gun or at least unwilling to try (which in my opinion is the same thing)

Can you provide hard proof that they have been and are unwilling to try?

Muleskinner said:
I have no ideas...but trying the same failed tactics over and over is a symptom of insanity..The people of Maryland are sitting ducks, but apparently the majority like it that way...We are a small minority, and like it or not, that's the way this democracy thing works...Now maybe if you could get several thousand minorities, handicapped people and women to carry our flag you could shame the PC culture into passing a more liberal concealed carry law..Liberals live for helping the under privileged..but old white guys? forget it..

Great, how do we start to reach out to them?

Kilroy · Nov 20, 2015

The ONLY thing that will cause a change is when legislators start to become personally affected by this. It could be re-election chances, people flooding them with calls and physical mail, funding primary challengers, use your imagination. It will also require the Republican minority to actually care about this issue. They have to be willing to actually go to the mat on this issue. Right now they won't, because it's not like it will get them any extra votes.

Schipperke · Nov 20, 2015

How many signatures would it take for these petition to matter

~ 117,693

brownspotz · Nov 20, 2015

Muleskinner said:
nothing..our last hope was Hogan and Pallozi but Hogan turned out to be anti gun or at least unwilling to try (which in my opinion is the same thing) I have no ideas....

blah blah blah pissing in an ocean of piss. hogan doesnt care about your gun rights etc. hes more worried about an ugly term and not his second,its called remission.

Muleskinner · Nov 21, 2015

brownspotz said:
blah blah blah pissing in an ocean of piss. hogan doesnt care about your gun rights etc. hes more worried about an ugly term and not his second,its called remission.

If he is so worried about his own health he needs to resign and let Rutherford run the state...

redeemed.man · Nov 21, 2015

Alexp08 said:
I've been seeing a lot of these petitions going around about concealed carry and I can't help to think that it's a rather fruitless effort based on the small number of signers.
Quick facts. Rough numbers here. Based off of 2024 census.

Roughly 5.6 million people in MD. Take out those under 21 who would not be able to conceal carry, that equals about 4.2 million
Take out older individuals I'd say 75+ years of age (this does not mean someone of that age would carry, just trying to get a better estimate) that takes us to about 4 million.

So 4 million people in Maryland of a age range to carry a concealed weapon.

Now another variable, those by law that cant. Criminals, probation, etc.

Based on a 2011 census, there were roughly 25k in prisons and another 70k on probation or parole. I'm going to roundo this up to 100k for the sake of the census being 4 years old. Next I'm going to triple it as many would be out of prison and of parole or probation or for other offenses that would keep them from owning a gun, so 300k that would by law not be able to have a weapon or carry permit.

So that makes 3.7million, of age and legally able to obrain a CCP.

To cover any variables I've missed I'm going to decrease that number to 3.5 million

Finally the petitions I've seen combined have roughly 30k signers. Compared to 3.5 million, that's not even 1 percent of Marylanders signing these petitions.

Don't get me wrong, times are getting rough I think those who are mentally competent and law abiding should be able to defend themselves, I just can't help to think that these petitions are not even going to make a dent. Without another few hundred thousand signers

Once again these are all rough numbers based on Internet sites.
https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-maryland
http://www.alec.org/initiatives/prison-overcrowding/prison-overcrowding-maryland/

It takes longer to read this post than it does to sign the petition. Sure it may not work, and likely won't. Does that mean you don't try? I applaud anyone who is trying to change things no matter how small the effort may be.

Sign the petitions! What do you have to lose? Again, posting in this thread takes longer.

kalister1 · Nov 21, 2015

Roughly 5.6 million people in MD.

My answer: Roughly 5.6 million + 1

Schipperke · Nov 21, 2015

Interesting how petitioning for a right doesn't bother anyone, but voting does.

teratos · Nov 21, 2015

Schipperke said:
Interesting how petitioning for a right doesn't bother anyone, but voting does.

Petitioning only includes those in favor of a Right, and is really non-binding in any way. Voting is a lot different.

Schipperke · Nov 21, 2015

teratos said:
Petitioning only includes those in favor of a Right, and is really non-binding in any way. Voting is a lot different.

indeed

MigraineMan · Nov 21, 2015

Muleskinner said:
Sign all the petitions you want, meet with the anti gun delegates and senators, rally at lawyer's mall, throw yourself on the ground and hold your breath....Until those who desire a "shall issue" law understand the mentality of the liberals who run this state, It's not going to happen. Mike and Mike are the Alpha and Omega of what bills come out of committee and which ones of those do get passed into law...they, along with AG Frosh dictate gun laws in this state and all 3 tow the party line with an iron fist.

Signatures are irrelevant. They are on par with facts, which are also irrelevant. You cannot bring facts to an emotional fight. When three thousand individuals show up in Annapolis to oppose legislation, the pundits trot out the "silent majority" fiction and extend that from the opposition numbers, creating a plausible-sounding support base synthesized from nothing but aether. It's magical stuff, and is gobbled-down and distributed by the mainstream media faster than grass goes through a goose.

Unfortunately, we haven't quite run out of other-people's money, so the FSA (with what appears to be at critical mass here in MD) will continue to re-elect these knuckleheads. Pushing to de-gerrymander the MD districts would probably be a better application of effort in the short term, as everything we seek to accomplish requires reformation of the Senate and House of Delegates.

How many signatures would it take for these petition to matter.

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