Seeking Advice, Criminals as neighbors

Man, I am truly sorry you are going through this sh*t. Been there done it and I hope these cretins fall into a bottomless hole somewhere.

Meantime, the State’s Attorney is who I’d also be writing and emailing!

Tip: bureaucrats love it when you “call” (there’s no record of your call and as soon as you hang up, “Poof!” - it’s like it never happened, to them!) and they positively HATE it when you write. Written communication creates a paper trail which doesn’t “go away” and they know it! Rule #1 in the bureaucracy is “Cover Your Ass” and written communication makes it difficult to ignore a recidivist-situation such as yours.

Thanks slsc98, Good advice on the putting communications in writing vs phone calls. I can also use the Writing AND CALL method.

Tell them you are being targeted because you are here in the country illegally. They will probably station a deputy outside your home.

chilipeppermaniac said:

He also called the Carroll County Sheriff and an officer responded. I believe he told me the cop questioned the perp and basically took no action. This is highly disturbing to me because not only does the perp have a lifelong criminal record, but he was released early on parole and apparently was entering into property (car) that was not his and the cop did nothing. Oh, yeah, when the neighbor( victim) asked the sheriff if MD was a Castle Doctrine State and what he could do about protecting himself and family, the cop told him to put up no trespassing signs.

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Why are you disturbed about the deputy's response? A misdemeanor that didn't occur in his presence, he cannot make a physical arrest. There was no mention of any physical evidence to prove the neighbor did it, so there is nothing the deputy can do. When the victim asked if he could use deadly force (castle doctrine) over a "rogue and vagabond" charge, the deputy chose not to get involved.

What would you prefer? Would you rather see law enforcement make emotional based arrests without proof? What happens when the neighbor calls police on you and says you illegally had a gun on the street...? Do you want that same deputy to take action without proof and arrest you too?

Asking for a friend...

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Spoon, I am not sure you understand my concern. My neighbor in my old house, ACTUALLY caught the NEIGHBOR who robbed my house in his car out front of his house( my old house)

What disturbs me about the actions of the Sheriff in how he handled my neighbor's need and the degree to which the invasion of his vehicle was not taken seriously enough to ensure the safety of the man, his wife and 2 year old son's well being.
1st, the cop did not take fingerprints to determine the perpetrator's ID. 2nd, He basically told the victim, that Maryland was not a Castle Doctrine state, and when asked how he was supposed to protect his home, he was told to put up No Trespassing Signs. 3rd, the Perp has a long history of Crimes including felony theft of my property, car thefts, and other serious crimes dating back at least 25 of his 40 years on this planet. The victim neighbor was not asked to ID the criminal neighbor, even though he confronted him directly at the car, and as the perp walked away despite being warned the police were being called.

As for emotionally based arrests without proof, the cop had all the pieces he should have needed. The victim/eyewitness, the chance to print the vehicle, and the perp in question living 3 doors away from the incident all within 15 minutes of the occurrence. How could the cop simply tell the victim his best recourse was "to put up no trespassing signs. Here's your report and my card?" " Have a nice day"

chilipeppermaniac said:

Spoon, I am not sure you understand my concern. My neighbor in my old house, ACTUALLY caught the NEIGHBOR who robbed my house in his car out front of his house( my old house)

What disturbs me about the actions of the Sheriff in how he handled my neighbor's need and the degree to which the invasion of his vehicle was not taken seriously enough to ensure the safety of the man, his wife and 2 year old son's well being.
1st, the cop did not take fingerprints to determine the perpetrator's ID. 2nd, He basically told the victim, that Maryland was not a Castle Doctrine state, and when asked how he was supposed to protect his home, he was told to put up No Trespassing Signs. 3rd, the Perp has a long history of Crimes including felony theft of my property, car thefts, and other serious crimes dating back at least 25 of his 40 years on this planet. The victim neighbor was not asked to ID the criminal neighbor, even though he confronted him directly at the car, and as the perp walked away despite being warned the police were being called.

As for emotionally based arrests without proof, the cop had all the pieces he should have needed. The victim/eyewitness, the chance to print the vehicle, and the perp in question living 3 doors away from the incident all within 15 minutes of the occurrence. How could the cop simply tell the victim his best recourse was "to put up no trespassing signs. Here's your report and my card?" " Have a nice day"

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As spoon stated, Maryland law does not allow police to make warrantless arrests for the majority of misdemeanors that aren’t committed in their presence. It doesn’t matter how much evidence the victim provides. The victim in these cases is generally referred to the district court commissioner to seek charges.

As far as not printing the vehicle, I can throw this out there. In my neighboring jurisdiction, we may never get prints analyzed at the patrol level, for misdemeanor cases. Detective cases get priority. Even then, there’s a hierarchy. Persons crimes before property crimes. Then you have to consider how many examiners there actually are. With Carroll County sheriffs being a relatively new agency, I assume they don’t have their own “crime lab” and have to send their evidence requiring analysis to MSP or some other certified, private lab. If it’s MSP......well, they have their own cases to pursue and then evidence from other agencies all over the state that may require their services.

Not saying it’s right, but it’s the reality of the situation.


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GTOGUNNER said:

Is that legal advice?

Thought so. Your castle is your curtilage including the area around your house. Use good judgment, protect what is yours.

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Ah no. You can't use deadly force to protect your stuff. If someone is rifling through your car and you stand there with your boomstick you can yell at him really loud and hope he stops. If you use your firearm to stop him from carrying away your property, you are up shitts creek. However, if he threatens you or produces a weapon, it's game-on. Just stealing your stuff is not covered under common law castle doctrine. Some states like TX specifically allow the use of deadly force to keep someone from rustling your horse after sundown, but that's specifically spelled out.

That's not legal advice, just the truth.

traveller said:

Ah no. You can't use deadly force to protect your stuff. If someone is rifling through your car and you stand there with your boomstick you can yell at him really loud and hope he stops. If you use your firearm to stop him from carrying away your property, you are up shitts creek. However, if he threatens you or produces a weapon, it's game-on. Just stealing your stuff is not covered under common law castle doctrine. Some states like TX specifically allow the use of deadly force to keep someone from rustling your horse after sundown, but that's specifically spelled out.



That's not legal advice, just the truth.

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Dead men can't lie. Steal my chit, you die. Don't want to die? Don't steal.

daNattyFatty said:

As spoon stated, Maryland law does not allow police to make warrantless arrests for the majority of misdemeanors that aren’t committed in their presence. It doesn’t matter how much evidence the victim provides. The victim in these cases is generally referred to the district court commissioner to seek charges.

As far as not printing the vehicle, I can throw this out there. In my neighboring jurisdiction, we may never get prints analyzed at the patrol level, for misdemeanor cases. Detective cases get priority. Even then, there’s a hierarchy. Persons crimes before property crimes. Then you have to consider how many examiners there actually are. With Carroll County sheriffs being a relatively new agency, I assume they don’t have their own “crime lab” and have to send their evidence requiring analysis to MSP or some other certified, private lab. If it’s MSP......well, they have their own cases to pursue and then evidence from other agencies all over the state that may require their services.

Not saying it’s right, but it’s the reality of the situation.


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Thank you, fatty. In my most recent case circa 2015, where the minor aged perp stole drugs and items valued over the amount attributed to felony burglary of both of my houses. When I explained my account of who I suspected committed the theft, the Sherrif's must have deemed the event worthy of a good number of Sheriff's cars, a crime lab type team and full printing and DNA tests of my doorknobs, window of entry exit, other displaced property, and some recovered property as evidence. When they interrogated family members at his grandmother's house and then spoke to me, one deputy realized they had handled a call at the perp's home address a few days prior and also were called in to Carroll County Hospital that same night for an "drug sick/impaired" minor aged 15 yr old boy . In the case of my property that was taken, the DAD (original and current perp who entered the neighbor's car), was stupid enough to sell my items to a Pawn shop and another business that required Driver's license ID to make the transaction.

Once I provided serial numbers and descriptions of the goods stolen, the 2 stores held the merchandise, and the police had all the evidence needed to charge him with the theft. In both investigations at my 2 residences, the searches, interrogations and gathering of evidence and facts took as many as 4-5 hours before the police were all satisfied with their fact gathering, evidence, and suspects.

I can't confirm or refute if the CC Sheriff's can print or DNA in their own lab facility or if they need to send things out, I just know they did do the DNA tests and said it matched those of the Minor aged perp for the burglary he committed. But, to me, if a perp is ID'd by the victim ( my new neighbor) as being the offending party who entered his vehicle without permission, and said perp has a history of car theft, drugs, alcohol, felony burglary, it should be reasonable for the car owner to be concerned he was either entering the car to steal it or to steal the contents from within.

Not being a lawyer or policeman myself, I can only do my best to gather info to help my good neighbor and in turn help myself from being the "suckers" who may get robbed or shot or stabbed, Shot or raped etc

chilipeppermaniac said:

Spoon, I am not sure you understand my concern.

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Nope, I understood.
Police cannot make an arrest for that crime unless they saw it happen.
I can tell you from personal experience that the vast majority of interior surfaces of a car are not conducive to latent prints. Rough textures make it impossible. Prints on the outside of the car prove nothing.
If your neighbor saw this dude inside his car, he can go get charges himself.
The guys prior criminal history means NOTHING without PROOF that he committed THIS crime.
Castle Doctrine still doesn't apply.

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Spoon, "If your neighbor saw this dude inside his car, he can go get charges himself."

This is precisely what happened and what he tried to do by calling the sheriff. The neighbor said he saw the light come on inside his car at about 9-9:30 PM Saturday and went out and found the guy with the door open. This is when he asked him "HEY WTF are you doing in my car?" Then the guy walked away after giving him a BS answer. So, he said he was calling the police, which he did. I have already explained what happened once the police arrived.

Move. It’s not fair, and you shouldn’t have to do it, but it will solve your problem.

chilipeppermaniac said:

Spoon, "If your neighbor saw this dude inside his car, he can go get charges himself."

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I don't think you understand, and I'm not sure how else to say this. The police cannot make a physical arrest for this unless they witnessed it themselves. The police cannot apply for a waters but charging this guy unless they have physical evidence to support the claim.

Your friend, however, can go to the commissioner's office himself and apply for criminal charges against this guy. The police don't grant warrants... the commissioner's office does.

Anyway, I'm done trying to explain this. You want to blame the police because the courts keep letting this guy out. You want to blame the police because the Constitution doesn't allow emotional charging of criminal cases. You want to blame the police because the criminal justice system moves slow. Enjoy your anger.

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chilipeppermaniac said:

Spoon, "If your neighbor saw this dude inside his car, he can go get charges himself."

This is precisely what happened and what he tried to do by calling the sheriff. The neighbor said he saw the light come on inside his car at about 9-9:30 PM Saturday and went out and found the guy with the door open. This is when he asked him "HEY WTF are you doing in my car?" Then the guy walked away after giving him a BS answer. So, he said he was calling the police, which he did. I have already explained what happened once the police arrived.

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Your neighbor can go to the district court commissioner and fill out an 'application for statement of charges'. If the commissioner finds his statement believable, he may issue a summons or a warrant. The process isn't all that different from the police requesting charges, except that the police has the correct verbiage for the request stored on their laptops.

spoon059 said:

I don't think you understand, and I'm not sure how else to say this. The police cannot make a physical arrest for this unless they witnessed it themselves. The police cannot apply for a waters but charging this guy unless they have physical evidence to support the claim.

Your friend, however, can go to the commissioner's office himself and apply for criminal charges against this guy. The police don't grant warrants... the commissioner's office does.

Anyway, I'm done trying to explain this. You want to blame the police because the courts keep letting this guy out. You want to blame the police because the Constitution doesn't allow emotional charging of criminal cases. You want to blame the police because the criminal justice system moves slow. Enjoy your anger.

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Thank you, Spoon. I may not have expressed things precisely enough, but I think both you and traveller have provided the information needed. I am not out to blame the police however. I also was not refuting your information on what can and can't be done as far as arresting a person who basically trespassed inside another man's car on the other man's property.

Noted: the police did not see this. But, only the victim and of course the perp did.

I will inform him about going to the commissioner to go through the charging process. Thank you.

DontTreadOnMe said:

Move. It’s not fair, and you shouldn’t have to do it, but it will solve your problem.

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Not necessarily true, and it's probably not an option. Although I agree that it's not fair. Maybe we should go medieval with part of our justice system; thiefs get hands chopped off... I bet theft rates would drop...

OP, it sounds like you and your neighbor are on the best track possible. Get those cameras up, and try to ensure witnesses are available and/or the police are called prior to any further confrontations. Hopefully the criminals knowing they're being hawked is enough to keep them from being stupid.

DontTreadOnMe said:

Move. It’s not fair, and you shouldn’t have to do it, but it will solve your problem.

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Don'tTread. I have essentially been forced to do exactly this. I made a partial move to Baltimore County due to no longer feeling safe at the property in Carroll County. I still own the house and sheds, and few vehicles there, but in my attempt to lessen further losses of valuables, I removed anything of appreciable value at the property during the 2015 trial of the 15 year old minor son who committed the 2nd of the break-ins. Now virtually all critical and valuable items are no longer there but in Baltimore county.

Sadly my peaceful home ground since 1994 has been tarnished by the one household who put the lives and safety of all the other neighbors at permanent peril as long as the convicted felons continue to reside there.

Thanks again to all who have made their suggestions and passed on the information needed to assist me and of course my good neighbors.

daNattyFatty said:

As spoon stated, Maryland law does not allow police to make warrantless arrests for the majority of misdemeanors that aren’t committed in their presence. It doesn’t matter how much evidence the victim provides. The victim in these cases is generally referred to the district court commissioner to seek charges.

As far as not printing the vehicle, I can throw this out there. In my neighboring jurisdiction, we may never get prints analyzed at the patrol level, for misdemeanor cases. Detective cases get priority. Even then, there’s a hierarchy. Persons crimes before property crimes. Then you have to consider how many examiners there actually are. With Carroll County sheriffs being a relatively new agency, I assume they don’t have their own “crime lab” and have to send their evidence requiring analysis to MSP or some other certified, private lab. If it’s MSP......well, they have their own cases to pursue and then evidence from other agencies all over the state that may require their services.

Not saying it’s right, but it’s the reality of the situation.


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My friend's wife is a forensic scientist for one of our local PDs......he can't watch any crime shows on TV when she's home. Between the screams of "B.S." and "it doesn't work that way" he says it takes all the fun out of it!

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chilipeppermaniac said:

rbird, I think danb knows what you meant. I sure did. I also know one has no cause to shoot someone for property defense. BUT as was said, if a perp is armed and dangerous and I am in imminent danger, they better be ready to be shot. Now if only I can put my weedwacker down fast enough to grab my 45.

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Having had a few scuffles with the business end of the weedwhacker.(ever had one kick back off of something hard?) ... Weedwhack his @$$!!!

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Mack C-85 said:

Having had a few scuffles with the business end of the weedwhacker.(ever had one kick back off of something hard?) ... Weedwhack his @$$!!!

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Thanks for the laugh, Mack C-85.
In the 90's I used to keep my chainsaw in the house and used to joke about if I ever was home and an intruder came in, I would fire up the saw first to scare em off.