First rifle: Interested in possibly getting a IWI Tavor...

woodline · May 17, 2020

If I had it to do over again, needed an MD legal option, and wanted a first rifle, I would buy this:

https://www.centurionarms.com/cm4-rifle-p/cm4rfl-m.htm

Get all standard options + a reptilia grip because the A2 finger bump annoys me. Specify HBAR markings. I don't know if the Centurion 2 stage trigger is any good or if OP would be better off going milspec then swapping to something better down the road.

That's it. Get a set of decent irons to learn on (not the KAC), then maybe get a red dot or 1-4/1-6ish scope.

Pinecone · May 17, 2020

Any quality AR is a better rifle than you are a shooter.

Spend your money on training and ammo.

Over the years, I have seen many people spend ALL amounts of money on making their firearm "better," but never spend the time and money on making the shooter better.

As in most sports, it is 10% equipment and 90% the person. So if you have a 10% upgrade in your equipment, you be a 1% improvement over all. If you make a 10% upgrade in YOU, you get a 9% overall increase in your performance.

I have seen this in shooting, tracking/racing cars, racing sailboats, and other endeavors.

Squaregrouper · May 17, 2020

HealthyHollyCommando said:
I was thinking about getting an AR15 for my first rifle, but I have been researching bullpups and read about the TAVOR. I am under the impression that they are banned in Marylandistan except for the IWI B18RS and IWI XB-18RS. Anyone have one? Where did u purchase it from? What is a reasonable price? Any issues with it? I think the bullpup design is so interesting. Thanks.

If you do decide to go with a Tavor, I would check out IP/Industry Partner (they pay for a MDS subforum) Masada Tactical on Reisterstown Rd in Pikesville. The guys that run it are Israeli and know a lot about Israeli firearms.

huesmann · May 20, 2020

Not sure if the OP is male or female, but based on name I suspect the latter.

FWIW, my wife prefers shooting our (bought 9/13) Tavor over our AR-15s, because the balance is better. It's less tiresome to shoot because there's less weight on her left arm.

danb · May 20, 2020

adit said:
That is incorrect. IWI even makes one for them.

You cannot suppress a Maryland compliant Tavor with the Maryland compliant muzzle device pinned and welded on.

The context of this thread is very important.

ST19AG_WGreymon · May 20, 2020

danb said:
You cannot suppress a Maryland compliant Tavor with the Maryland compliant muzzle device pinned and welded on.

The context of this thread is very important.

I just picked up my 18" Tavor from the smith yesterday. He pinned and welded a Griffin Armament flashcomp which accepts their line of Gate-Lok suppressors (also compatible with any NATO-spec A2 flash hider). This config gets me to the required 29" in length.

For comparison, the Tavor is 4" shorter than an AR-15 with a 14.7" barrrel with pinned A2 and as long as an AKS-74u with an 8.1" barrel.

TonyTwinz · May 20, 2020

You’ve done enough research that the Tavor ended up on your radar. Why? If the Tavor is what you desire buy it. Is an AR pattern rifle better? Perhaps, but so much more so that the Tavor would be a bad/poor choice? I would argue no. I would look to Tavor owners for advice vs non owners. Not that there opinion doesn’t matter, but should maybe carry a little less sway than those that own them. I enjoy mine very much. It has been extremely reliable with any ammo I’ve run through it with a variety of different mags. Easy field strip and maintenance. Handles well. Carries well when slung. Has performed very well at the few matches I’ve shot with it. I enjoy this rifle every time I shoot it and want for nothing. Is it perfect? Is any rifle perfect?

I purchased mine on consignment at United Gun shop for $1350. Good luck.

danb · May 20, 2020

ST19AG_WGreymon said:
I just picked up my 18" Tavor from the smith yesterday. He pinned and welded a Griffin Armament flashcomp which accepts their line of Gate-Lok suppressors (also compatible with any NATO-spec A2 flash hider)

yes, some FFLs will do that to a non-MD compliant model, if you already have a suppressor with a mount that can work.

erwos · May 20, 2020

I've got a Tavor, a bunch of ARs, and a lot of other interesting rifles.

The funny thing is, if we're talking something like the AGC multi-gun matches where reloading your rifle isn't a thing, the Tavor is not any worse than your average AR, especially if you toss a decent trigger pack into the Tavor. (Reloads are slower on a Tavor; don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.) I could even see where managing the Tavor in ported barricades might be more convenient than an 18" AR-15.

The long-term problem is when you get to the outer limits of performance - I can build (and have built) an AR to shoot sub-MOA with near-zero recoil and no muzzle rise, with a 2.5lb trigger that breaks like glass. It's not free, but it's possible. Doing that to a Tavor or X95 is not really possible. Whether this is a thing that you care about is your decision to make. I know that, a decade ago, I wouldn't have cared at all about it.

But if you're just looking for a first rifle, you could do a lot worse than a Tavor or X95.

mattonmission · May 21, 2020

POF makes premium ARs that are worth checking out. Why? Their MD compliant Renegade+ DI rifle weighs in at 6.3lbs for starters and the 7lbs piston driven P415 Edge rifle (my preference) will run all day long and clean up easy peasy. Check out more here.

But they aren't HBARs?!? Right, and they are fully MD compliant. It's their proprietary technology and features that keep the P415 Edge and Renegade+ from meeting the definition of a copycat weapon or the definition of a copy of an enumerated weapon.

Check em out, you won't be disappointed

Combloc · May 21, 2020

My honey shoots a Tavor IDF model and absolutely LOVES the thing. As for me, I'd take it over an AR every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It's plenty accurate, stupid reliable and if you ever do decide to clean it (it's optional if you ask me) it comes apart in a jiffy and has very few parts. Being designed and built in Israel, you know it's going to stand up to anything you can throw at it too. I'd recommend one to anyone.

tom855 · May 22, 2020

Nice optic!

Nice look on the optic. What kind is it?
Thanks!

ST19AG_WGreymon said:
The Tavor is legal so long as you meet the 29" rule. They have models that have muzzle brakes pinned and welded at 30" to meet the 29" rule. An FFL can order a non-compliant version and permanently attach a muzzle device.

If you get the 18" barreled Tavor, you will be short about 2.1" without a permanent muzzle device. I am currently having the stock brake changed out for a Griffin Armament FlashComp, cuts the length down to a little above 29" and allows me to mount a Griffin M4SD suppressor. I can't wait to have my barrel back.

The cheek weld with a low optic is a tiny bit uncomfortable. I opted to change my rail out for a shorter, slightly taller rail (Gear Head Works Razorback). The shorter rail mimics the original IDF look.

Before:

After:

AlBeight · May 22, 2020

squaregrouper said:
If you do decide to go with a Tavor, I would check out IP/Industry Partner (they pay for a MDS subforum) Masada Tactical on Reisterstown Rd in Pikesville. The guys that run it are Israeli and know a lot about Israeli firearms.

I paid for the IWI Tavor Combat carbine course level 1 last May in Lewisberry, PA. I wanted to learn how to use my Tavor the way it was intended. I started with AR’s and picked up the Tavor operations quick so don’t worry about that, and the manual of arms is easy to get used to. SG is right, go into Masada and talk to Yosi, he taught our class up there, he works for IWI’s training cadre. He was one super cool guy, former IDF Counter-terrorism special operator. After the class, I feel like I’m well capable of being very effective with that rifle. Lots of training on reloads, and clearing malfunctions (first we had to be taught how to create the malfunctions - the Blue Falcon Drill). May sign up for level 2 (shooting on the move, barriers, team drills, etc...) this summer, COVID permitting.

BTW, if you choose to take the Level 1 course at their Florida location, last I looked “Boone” ( Dave Benton) from Benghazi/13 hours fame was the instructor. I only noticed this after I had already completed the course in PA. How cool would it be to meet that guy and learn how to shoot from someone like him?

ST19AG_WGreymon · May 22, 2020

tom855 said:
Nice look on the optic. What kind is it?
Thanks!

EOTech 512

calicojack · May 24, 2020

Call me old fashioned, but for a first rifle get a bolt action in 22LR bolt gun with iron sights; like a Ruger American, or a Marlin, Savage, or similar. Everyone should have a 22LR anyways.

A rifle is different from a hand gun and shotgun; I would say get accustomed to a rifle before jumping into a semi-auto with a scope or red dot. Then get an AR; or at least get both at the same time and ease into the AR. My 2 cents.

teratos · May 24, 2020

calicojack said:
Call me old fashioned, but for a first rifle get a bolt action in 22LR bolt gun with iron sights; like a Ruger American, or a Marlin, Savage, or similar. Everyone should have a 22LR anyways.

A rifle is different from a hand gun and shotgun; I would say get accustomed to a rifle before jumping into a semi-auto with a scope or red dot. Then get an AR; or at least get both at the same time and ease into the AR. My 2 cents.

My kids went from .22 to AR platform in no time. I think my daughter was on an AR by the time she was 10. They had to learn to use irons before optics, but since a semi-auto in 5.56 is going to be the go-to for most folks, personally I see no reason to start there.

Pinecone · May 25, 2020

I agree with getting a .22 to start and to practice with. Cheaper ammo, if no other reason.

I don't feel that you need to start with a bolt action. You can start with a .22. A Ruger 10/22 is a fine starter rifle. Also the starter .22s from others.

Or, go with something like the S&W 15/22, which is basically a .22 copy of an AR. Only downside to the 15/22 is you cannot use it for an Appleseed event.

And I HIGHLY recommend doing an Appleseed event to learn how to shoot a rifle.

I also HIGHLY recommend that you learn using iron sights first. Develop your fundamentals.

First rifle: Interested in possibly getting a IWI Tavor...

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