Neighborhood watch carrying?

teratos · Jul 17, 2010

I think I understand the confusion.

The MD permit makes no distinction between open carry and concealed carry. It is a "Permit to carry a handgun". I think you probably read that discussion, and people were saying they would not OC, since it would raise a fuss and they would likely lose their permits.

K-Romulus · Jul 17, 2010

The3clipser said:
While I am unsure of the letter of the law, the general consensus is that a lot of people are not ok with OC and the cops would be called, guns would be drawn on you, and you would be arrested.

Having said that, OC on YOUR property is ok. Just make sure you know exactly where your lines end.

DD214 said:
In general, open carry of a handgun is illegal (except for the range, your property, etc.) unless you have a permit. That said, there are no laws prohibiting the open carry of an unloaded long gun that I am aware of. That isn't to say that it wouldn't get you arrested or even shot by your local cops, but technically it should be legal. Personally I would not open carry a long gun in MD for a whole plethora of reasons. And anyway, if you shot someone outside of your home you would get locked up for a very, very long time. Remember, MD is anything but a free state.

Not being a MD lawyer, my reading of MD law is that localities get to regulate guns & ammo within a so-called "safety zone" that is 100 yards surrounding schools, churches, parks, and "other places of public assembly." When outside that "safety zone," then state law is supreme over local law. This means you probably should check your local laws and a local map before carrying in your yard.

For example, MoCO has a law that makes it illegal to have any firearm or ammo within that safety zone, except for "in" a home or while transporting in a vehicle. I take that to mean that yard carry within that "safety zone" is illegal (from MoCO's point of view).

Since Chicago has passed a new handgun law (with the drafting help of the anti-gunowner lawyers' group "Legal Community Against Violence") that expressly says that any carry outside the living quarters is illegal - to include the porch/deck, yard, and garage - I would say that this outside carry "gray area" is now a little less gray within the legal world. MoCo can argue its law counts against you, and they can now point to Chicago as "yet another" locality with a similar law.

I would not want to be the test case. You should see what your local laws say about "safety zone carry." And if it does have such a law, check a map.

teratos · Jul 17, 2010

"Not illegal" to carry unloaded long gun.

Illegal to disturb the peace. I wouldn't do it.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 17, 2010

There's another question eventually for the Supremes. Can exercising a fundamental Constitutional right be disorderly on it's face ? Can it be restricted on basis of popularity with local bystanders ?
Flip the circumstances . On *historic example* a neighborhood in Oxford, MS in circa 1963 wearing a tee shirt that said " I support integrated University Campuses" would be counted on to raise the ire of majority of residents/ on lookers at any given moment . Constitutionally protected fundamental right.

Name Taken · Jul 17, 2010

I think his issue might be with some people and their legal thoughts on antique firearms (still a crime IMHO) and BLACK POWDER handguns.

No police dept. is going to sanction an armed community watch group in this state.

Old Salty Dog · Jul 17, 2010

rambling_one said:
We learn by asking, 04RWon. Keep doing so.

+1 MD Shooters is a terrific place to get educated. Any gun owner who lives in MD is crazy not to participate here!
As they say in the Navy, the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

Not to hijack the thread, but Don - and all the moderators - thanks for all the time you put into making this a terrific community.

tzoid · Jul 17, 2010

This may also help....but we all need to use common sense when it comes to carrying a firearm.

Educate yourself by attending a class by a local instructor like protecting yourself in the home. There are so many rules on engagement that vary state to state for instance in MD you can't legally shoot someone for stealing your property but if someone is standing on your front lawn with a gallon of gasoline and a lighter threatening to burn your house down with you in it then you " most likely " will be justified in putting a bullet in his head. Judged by 12 is my thinking...

This may help with questions as well

http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html

woodstock · Jul 17, 2010

as a former volunteer in my former condo association, i can tell you that if you carry concealed or open, if a neighbor sees you, and reports it, you will be arrested or maybe worse, depending on the cops that respond.

what i did to remedy the neighborhood watch was team up with other interested partys, bought pepper spray for all involved and had everyone's cell numbers. we took turns patrolling and reported to the next team that would be on patrol. do not assume that you are going to be interpreted as the good guy on a dark night after having someone report you carrying a gun. just my 2 cents.

9mm · Jul 17, 2010

Old Salty Dog said:
+1 MD Shooters is a terrific place to get educated. Any gun owner who lives in MD is crazy not to participate here!
As they say in the Navy, the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

Not to hijack the thread, but Don - and all the moderators - thanks for all the time you put into making this a terrific community.

+1

gamer_jim · Jul 17, 2010

I think it's good that you want to participate in your neighborhood watch. Are others in your 'hood on board with this? If this is a regular thing for your neighborhood to do this then after a bit you probably won't need to be armed. Just having aware people keeping an eye on things will deter criminals. Also, most break-ins occur during daylight hours, not at night.

To protect yourself: cell phone, Maglight, mace and a "walking stick". Go in pairs and let everyone in the neighborhood know what is going on. Maybe do a cook-out watching thing during the summer months.

Without a CCW permit from MSP you cannot carry your gun outside your residence except for the pre-defined reasons (and then it must be unloaded/holstered) like going to the range, shooting event, gunsmith or demonstrating your collection.

04RWon · Jul 18, 2010

OLM-Medic said:
You already got the answer to the handgun question. Now I just wonder why you owuld want to join a neighborhood watch. the ones I've seen call the cops on EVERYTHING. Not saying they all do, but there are those people out there who are always waiting to call the cops even to get you a parking ticket. Don't be one of those people...

No not me at all. I just have seen some weird behavior and reading in the paper about 2 break-ins within the last 2 weeks, its starting to irk me. A few months ago we had 1 resident up the street barricade himself in the house with a firearm. For the short length of time I have been in this neighborhood, theres been ALOT of "bad" stuff. I just want to get involved and do my part to make it safer.

RCH said:
I would cut him some slack- MD laws are confusing enough as it is... O4RWon wasn't sure and he was smart enough to inquire with the right group of people.

Thank you!

rambling_one said:
We learn by asking, 04RWon. Keep doing so.

Thank you as well. Its nice when people understand and help.

randyho said:
+1 MD's laws are not intuitive... which is my understatement du jour.

Thats for sure!

teratos said:
I think I understand the confusion.

The MD permit makes no distinction between open carry and concealed carry. It is a "Permit to carry a handgun". I think you probably read that discussion, and people were saying they would not OC, since it would raise a fuss and they would likely lose their permits.

Yeah I read that, it partly brought up my question...

Name Taken said:
I think his issue might be with some people and their legal thoughts on antique firearms (still a crime IMHO) and BLACK POWDER handguns.

No police dept. is going to sanction an armed community watch group in this state.

...and that did too

Old Salty Dog said:
+1 MD Shooters is a terrific place to get educated. Any gun owner who lives in MD is crazy not to participate here!
As they say in the Navy, the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

Not to hijack the thread, but Don - and all the moderators - thanks for all the time you put into making this a terrific community.

Its funny when that happens(unless its you...i know)

woodstock said:
as a former volunteer in my former condo association, i can tell you that if you carry concealed or open, if a neighbor sees you, and reports it, you will be arrested or maybe worse, depending on the cops that respond.

what i did to remedy the neighborhood watch was team up with other interested partys, bought pepper spray for all involved and had everyone's cell numbers. we took turns patrolling and reported to the next team that would be on patrol. do not assume that you are going to be interpreted as the good guy on a dark night after having someone report you carrying a gun. just my 2 cents.

Interesting...I may pitch that idea, Ill have to see what they do currently. I just saw the sign for the neighborhood watch the other day, thats what gave me the idea. Probably explains why some people walk their dogs the same time every night....lol

gamer_jim said:
I think it's good that you want to participate in your neighborhood watch. Are others in your 'hood on board with this? If this is a regular thing for your neighborhood to do this then after a bit you probably won't need to be armed. Just having aware people keeping an eye on things will deter criminals. Also, most break-ins occur during daylight hours, not at night.

To protect yourself: cell phone, Maglight, mace and a "walking stick". Go in pairs and let everyone in the neighborhood know what is going on. Maybe do a cook-out watching thing during the summer months.

Without a CCW permit from MSP you cannot carry your gun outside your residence except for the pre-defined reasons (and then it must be unloaded/holstered) like going to the range, shooting event, gunsmith or demonstrating your collection.

Theres a few, Im not sure how many at this point. Im not sure how it works yet either. You are right, the 2 break-ins we had were between the hours of 1800-2200. I cant believe that.

Thanks for the good advice everyone. Im glad theres people that will help newb's and who are understanding about it.

MDFF2008 · Jul 18, 2010

No need to flame, we are just so used to the negative gun attitude, I think we were taken that someone thought OC might be legal in MD.

It's not unfortunately.

I think the best way to approach a night watch would be to use a car. Cars give you the element of speed, which can be used to escape a bad situation.

And there is good advice here about remembering the goal of the watch. The goal it seems is to cut down on crime, not to be the town nanny

04RWon · Jul 18, 2010

gprimr1 said:
No need to flame, we are just so used to the negative gun attitude, I think we were taken that someone thought OC might be legal in MD.

It's not unfortunately.

I think the best way to approach a night watch would be to use a car. Cars give you the element of speed, which can be used to escape a bad situation.

And there is good advice here about remembering the goal of the watch. The goal it seems is to cut down on crime, not to be the town nanny

My car is the last one the neighbors would want patroling through the neighborhood lol.

smokey · Jul 18, 2010

just carry batons with you...you can carry them anywhere and not get in any trouble(including hanging out in front of voting stations with them and your buddies)

Ethan83 · Jul 19, 2010

smokey0118 said:
just carry batons with you...you can carry them anywhere and not get in any trouble(including hanging out in front of voting stations with them and your buddies)

Yeah but that only works if the OP is black. Apparently Holder's DoJ rejects the 14th and 15th Amendments, and thus only blacks get to enjoy this new-found Right to Violate Civil Rights. C'mon, get with the program...

FIREHAWK · Jul 19, 2010

we all want to protect our neighborhoods but we also pay the police to do it. neighborhood watchers should be armed with a cell phone, thats the whole point of "watch". i thought they were suppossed to use large numbers of people to help overcome local neighborhood problems by showing themselves in the community and driving out the bad element.

i remember as a teen we would be hasselled by the citizens on patrol in parkville as we cruised around. they would follow us all thu "the oaks" and then we'd get behind them and follow them to piss em off. we had a few altercations at the 7-11

now i watchout for my street and have the power to defend my home and property, other than that i just go about my business.

shawn · Jul 19, 2010

FIREHAWK said:
we all want to protect our neighborhoods but we also pay the police to do it.

We do not pay the police to "protect our neighborhoods".

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=40067

This thread discusses in great detail how the police are there to provide a general deterrent to crime by patrolling, investigating crimes AFTER they happen and arresting individuals who are suspected of commiting crimes.

It IS everyones responsibility to protect themselves.

FIREHAWK · Jul 19, 2010

shawn said:
We do not pay the police to "protect our neighborhoods".

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=40067

This thread discusses in great detail how the police are there to provide a general deterrent to crime by patrolling, investigating crimes AFTER they happen and arresting individuals who are suspected of commiting crimes.

It IS everyones responsibility to protect themselves.

thats not what i meant. its not his responsibility to protect the neighborhood and yes taxes pay police salaries argue all you want thats how it works. and your statement is exactly what i'm saying.... who the hell is the OP to take it upon himself to go out armed looking to stop crime? i protect myself in my home and on my property but i am not allowed to leave my "castle" if you will and shoot someone at the first sign of trouble.

this is just like that post a couple weeks ago about the guy here who pulled a gun out on a drunk guy in his backyard.

Rugbier · Jul 19, 2010

Actually......

( and don't flame me cause I am a noob )

You can carry a Muzzleloader with you openly all you want ( loaded minus one of the compenets, i.e. no primer, or no powder... ) but the main question ( somewhat previously answered ) WHY? or worse WHO ARE YOU TO?

Lets assume you do not get shot by LEO that confussed you with a criminal, or you crossed through someone elses yard in pursuit of the suspect and the owner of that yard thinks you are the crook ..or..

I mean, what if you use that weapon wrongfully, cause the alledged assailant pissed you off
or
Your skin colour is different than the alledged assailant

Honestly if you think about all that... take several years of Martial Arts, then participate on watch :rolleyes:

FIREHAWK · Jul 19, 2010

Rugbier said:
Actually......

( and don't flame me cause I am a noob )

You can carry a Muzzleloader with you openly all you want ( loaded minus one of the compenets, i.e. no primer, or no powder... ) but the main question ( somewhat previously answered ) WHY? or worse WHO ARE YOU TO?

Lets assume you do not get shot by LEO that confussed you with a criminal, or you crossed through someone elses yard in pursuit of the suspect and the owner of that yard thinks you are the crook ..or..

I mean, what if you use that weapon wrongfully, cause the alledged assailant pissed you off
or
Your skin colour is different than the alledged assailant

Honestly if you think about all that... take several years of Martial Arts, then participate on watch

dude thats what i'm saying :thumbsup:

don't go looking for a fight just cuz you have a gun.

Neighborhood watch carrying?

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