Why I chose this caliber...

NateTheShake said:

Yes, but what happens when a 165 grain bullet is going that fast? It must be like that one scene in The Watchmen when Dr. Manhattan is going apes**t on the Viet Cong with his naked blue fury. Nothing left in its wake except for maybe a spinal column and some blood spray.

10mm > Everything.

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165gr 10mm load at 1350FPS? I guess if you want a light load in order to spare those within the blast radius

Just wondering if you guys actually Fired the 10mm indoors, low light without hearing protection?

If you liked it...I guess you will love watching flashbang grenades go off as well.

I would never post in a caliber debate thread, but if I did I would say....

I am a .45 whore. Big, slow, and powerful. I can identify with that.

I want something that will hit flesh and expend all (or most) of its' energy in that flesh. Punching neat little holes through people doesn't interest me. Shooting through windshields is probably not something I am going to be doing in a SD situation.

Musket balls were huge (.56 cal?) and moved at a very slow speed. They shattered bone. Not broke, shattered...as in nearly disintegrated. Big and slow works.

The .45 is probably the most powerful round that also carries the least chance of over-penetration. 'Cause it's slow.

I have a very small pistol that will carry 10+1 in .45. That's plenty capacity. I have other pistols that will shoot .45 Super if I really want to put a hurtin' on someone...and the guy behind them....and the guy behind them. That's not what I want.

I also don't feel outgunned with a 9mm. With the right ammo, it'll put a bad guy down in a hurry. At $10 a box, I get plenty of practice.

I don't like .40 because of the snappy recoil. The increased power over 9mm is not offset by my ability to bring the 9mm back on target much more quickly.

.357 Sig is too hard to get (compared to .45 and 9) and too expensive for my tastes. The same goes for 10mm and the recoil and decreased capacity eliminate it for my purposes.

And all of that....is just me. I don't think there is a bad round over .380. People get comfortable with and like what they like. Arguing what is better is pointless. It's about what "you" like and what "you" feel the most comfortable shooting.


Where IS that popcorn smilie....

Splitter

Splitter said:

I am a .45 whore. Big, slow, and powerful. I can identify with that.

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It's funny you say that, because I've always seen myself as a 22LR. Small, weak, slow and ineffective, but I'm a hell of a cheap date.

What splitter said....

I'm a .45 whore too, and with an XD, I've got plenty in the magazine to counter most any threat short of a platoon sized force.

I must say I am learing a lot on this particular thread.....good job, all!!!

I own a several pistols but limit the variety of calibers to four

22LR for plinking, target , fun day at the range type shooting
9mm For generalized defensive applications, tactical and target practice.
357SIG My CCW round. ( I practice with a Glock 19 and pack a Glock 32)
45 ACP Its Un-American not to own one. If you want to kill it right, you cant go wrong with the 45.

Personally I like most calibers and have at least 1 gun in 9mm, 10mm, .40, .45

I probably like 10mm the best because I load my own and if you've ever played with 10mm you'd know you can cover a lot of different weights/speeds. It has to be one of the most versatile calibers evern made.

For home defense I keep 16 rounds of hot 200gr JHPs in my Glock 20 and 19 rounds of 124gr. JPHs in my CZ75 SP-01 close at hand. I figure either one or both will do what I need them to do if the need arises.

Crxflippr said:

It's funny you say that, because I've always seen myself as a 22LR. Small, weak, slow and ineffective, but I'm a hell of a cheap date.

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You old son of a gun....



Splitter

Home defense situation...my pistol is a secondary weapon. A carbine is still my primary weapon of choice. Anything that requires a projectile larger than a 9mm to stop deserves a double tap from a 5.56 carbine or a 00buck shotgun blast.

For CCW... In MD , even with a permit, you cant afford your piece to print or risk it being yanked away by MSP. I pack a G26 subcompact with +P loads( t shirt weather) or G32 IN .357 SIG( Fall - Winter gun)
A small concealable pistol with an effective round seems to fit the bill. I would like to CCW a 45, but I seem to always get into the habit of puling up my pants and that gives the gun away.

Seeings as we are going into some caliber history. Can anyone tell me about the .460 Rowland? Its .45 necked down to .40 right?

gibby said:

Seeings as we are going into some caliber history. Can anyone tell me about the .460 Rowland? Its .45 necked down to .40 right?

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I dunno, but it;s a serious BOOM! I think I hit the berm....

Splitter

They used to come in a 1911 format. Maybe I have the name confused another caliber.

joppaj said:

I can agree with this. I don't personally like the 9mm. However, a co-worker of mine spent years in the Air Force as whatever they call thier MP's. With a Beretta M-9 he was a perfect shooter on qual day and got excellent scores on tac courses as well. It wasn't the biggest gun in the fight but his skill, mindset and experience were going to get him through most fights on top.

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It has also been my experience that MP's are not to mess around with When they draw its like a blur and all time stops as you take 6 to the chest.

Been very happy with my glocks. I have a 20sf,21sf,31,32(soon)and a 36. I have no problems finding .357 sig or 10mm online.(with a little serching) I have a harder time finding .45acp instock at wallyworld. I think my 21sf has the most snap than my other glocks when i fire. I feel comfortable firing any of these in self defence.

Squad40 said:

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Someone photoshopped a nuclear explosion's mushroom cloud into the 10mm bullet track. Also the bullet silhouette for the .45 and the 10mm are the same, just that the 10mm is larger. Hmmmmm.

hahahaha

im stealing that

Trouble finding 357 sig? Look in Walmart; it is almost always available.

Once again, some shooters need to realize that there is no magic bullet to compensate for poor marskmanship in a fight.

No round will be effective if you can't hit your target. With most shooters, High Cap just means more misses.

gibby said:

Seeings as we are going into some caliber history. Can anyone tell me about the .460 Rowland? Its .45 necked down to .40 right?

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Nope, its a proprietary chambering that magazine writer Johnny Rowland, Clark custom guns and starline brass came up with. Reinforced cases that are almost the exact same dimentions, just .062" longer than 45ACP to prevent them from being used in 45ACP guns, but loaded to the same OAL, and fit in standard 45acp mags. The pressure spec is 42,500PSI, double the 21,000PSI of standard 45ACP, and 50% higher than the 28,000psi of 45 super, in fact higher pressure than 10mm, 44mag, 45 win mag, 38 super and 30-30win. This gives you about equal power to factory 44mag, and low end 44mag handloads from a 6" gun out of a 45ACP case and 5" 1911 sized pistol..

185gr(JHP) - 1550FPS - 986FPE
200gr(JHP) - 1450FPS - 933FPE
230gr(FMJ) - 1350FPS - 930FPE
260gr(LRN) - 1150FPS - 763FPE

The drop in conversion Clark custom sells uses a pretty efficient compensator to slow down the slide, and extend lock time a little bit, without it the caliber would probably require around a 30# spring, the Wilson hunter in 360 Rowland uses a 28# spring without a comp, but uses a sqare firing pin retainer, and a heavy hammer spring. My Kimber with the 460Rowland kit works best with a 20# spring and my "light" handloads, 200gr XTP at 1350FPS. The kit can also fire 45ACP and 45 super because of the tapered leade, these have slightly shorter cases, but a pistol with a good extractor can hold them aggainst the breech face well enough that they will fire, in my case they do so reliably, being they can't headspace on the chamber mouth like the Rowland cases do. The barrel is very well made, high grade stainless steel machined from bar stock, the rifling is sharp, and the finish is smooth, without a doubt it will accelerate wear on the pistol, but when used in moderation is streaches the 1911's abilities far into 44mag territory with a lot less recoil due to the comp, and in an auto. The round is also supremely accurate, and is capable of impressive groups out past 100 yards (my best so far is about 6" at 100 yards from a rest), while at 300 yards a heavy 230gr Rowland load has about the same velocity and energy with the same bullet as a standard 45ACP 1911 has at the muzzle.

While it is impressive performance, and relatively easy to throw a lot of lead quickly due to the well designed comp, it is LOUD and the flash is ridiculous, it would be unberable to shoot without ears, and the flash is blinding at night, there are also few factory loads for it, and they are expensive, it is basically relegated to hunting, targets and silouette shooting. I has also proven to be an awesome bowling pin gun with 260gr hardcast at a modest 950-1,000FPS it throws pins like nothing else, and feels about the same as standard 230gr 45acp ball loads recoil wise, but with no muzzle flip due to the comp.

Here is my Kimber with the 460 CLark custom kit and a 50yd target: