brace/angled fore grip vs sbr case

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  • danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Actually I find most disturbing that the ATF attempted to seal the case (basic constitutional violation there), and even more disturbing that they tried to prevent the jury from hearing past ATF determination letters. Because they would be confusing! no shit!

    thankfully the jury acquitted in a very short time.

    looking at the exhibits, this seems to have involved the "Maxim defense CQB Pistol EXC for AR-15"
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    The exhibit list makes it look like he paracorded a rubber pad on to the brace. General advice I've heard is to not alter the factory brace in any way. Glad he was found to not be guilty.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    I too was surprised that the govt petitioned to block the submission of previous BATFE letters as evidence. I specifically ditched my shockwave brace for the SB just to ensure I had some backup paper.
     

    HaveBlue

    HaveBlue
    Dec 4, 2014
    733
    Virginia
    The article I read mentioned that he had a folding brace and an angled fore grip. What is the purpose of an angled fore grip on a pistol?

    To be clear, It’s a dumb law that has cost & ruined more lives that it ever saved.
     

    SC-Texas

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Oct 12, 2017
    193
    The fact the at the government sealed the records is intriguing. They don't want anyone to know what they tried to do.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,395
    Westminster USA
    An AFG on a pistol keeps it from being an NFA firearm, specifically a VFG makes it an AOW by BATFE opinion

    This is an BATFE ruling from a few years ago.

    VFG on pistol=illegal becomes AOW

    AFG on pistol=legal

    See the answer to Q7
    .
     

    Attachments

    • ATF-Response-AFG-on-AR-Pistol.pdf
      157.4 KB · Views: 106

    delaware_export

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 10, 2018
    3,144
    So, another bump stock moment, all over again???

    Trying to erase the angled grip ruling after the fact, in court? Hmmm.

    An AFG on a pistol keeps it from being an NFA firearm, specifically a VFG makes it an AOW by BATFE opinion

    This is an BATFE ruling from a few years ago.

    VFG on pistol=illegal becomes AOW

    AFG on pistol=legal

    See the answer to Q7
    .
     

    SC-Texas

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Oct 12, 2017
    193
    An AFG on a pistol keeps it from being an NFA firearm, specifically a VFG makes it an AOW by BATFE opinion

    This is an BATFE ruling from a few years ago.

    VFG on pistol=illegal becomes AOW

    AFG on pistol=legal

    See the answer to Q7
    .
    There has been at least one if not two criminal prosecutions were the jury's nullified the fertile foregrip turning a pistol into an AOW.

    I cannot find those cites right now

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
     

    Kicken Wing

    Snakes and Sparklers
    Apr 5, 2014
    868
    WASH-CO
    So, another bump stock moment, all over again???

    Trying to erase the angled grip ruling after the fact, in court? Hmmm.

    That is what is sounds like to me. I think that all of us are somewhat aware of the items that are now legal but walk the fine line of "could be illegal in the near future if certain people get their way". I can see a reverse ruling on pistol braces (again) only this time I can see them being categorized as an illegal accessory or making your weapon an NFA item. I see 80 percents getting the smackdown in some form eventually. We already have that threat in the works. After seeing the bumpstock debacle, I do not put anything past anyone. Hell, I can see all AR pistols being redefined and categorized as SBR's. Don't ever show an anti gunner your AR pistol. They will be baffled in regards to how that scary looking thing is legal but certain AR rifles are not. I have nothing to back up this paragraph other than my gut feeling and the political climate.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Anyone else read the certification of exhibits?

    Photo Maxim defense brand extension with attatched rubber pad
    photo rubber pad w paracord
    photo length of pull measurement full length

    Indeed the ATF sucks, they exist to violate the 2nd ammendment, and issue opinions that carry the force of law, but I'm not ready to bust out torches and pitchforks just yet.
    If the guy basically paracorded a but pad on the end of the brace, then that is potentially a "redesign to be fired from the shoulder." having nothing to do with legal components themselves, but a modification to them, and at least the reason he found himself in hot water would be apparent. All I've seen are a few articles basically repeating the defendant's lawyer's statement, some info would be nice, government transparency and all, disturbing they tried to omit their own opinion letters from the case, then try to get it sealed, but it should be made public, and we can judge what happened. I want to know if the guy was railroaded over an unconstitutional law by an unconstitutional agency, or if he might have stepped over the line breaking an unconstitutional law and it's interpretation by an unconstitutional agency
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/
    More info on it. His guns were confiscated during a domestic dispute. He had altered the brace by attaching a rubber cane pad on the end. Atf incorrectly measured the LOP over 13.5"....which was a standard they were going by, but never told the public about. He used a public defender, so he didn't pay any money for legal fees and was found not guilty in under an hour. Fun times.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/
    More info on it. His guns were confiscated during a domestic dispute. He had altered the brace by attaching a rubber cane pad on the end. Atf incorrectly measured the LOP over 13.5"....which was a standard they were going by, but never told the public about. He used a public defender, so he didn't pay any money for legal fees and was found not guilty in under an hour. Fun times.

    you buried the lede: ATF mismeasured the length of pull (LOP), and never issued guidance that the LOP for the brace must be kept under LOP<13.5"

    key points!
     

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