Grandma's Thompson

I was reading an article a while back about an elderly lady who tuned in an original Thompson Machine Gun. I couldn't find the original article, but here is another.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/guns-497083-police-cards.html

So, I got to thinking about this (dangerous I know) and I had a question for those of you that understand the laws much better than I.

Suppose someone is helping clean up Grandma's house after she passes away and they come across Grandpa's original pre'68 Thompson, M14, M16, whatever. Now what? Turing it in for $100 gift card would be about as stupid a thing as I can imagine. But, is it still possible to legally transfer that firearm to another individual, following the proper NFA procedures of course, or is it too late as the firearm was never put on the registry (assuming that one exists )? With neither Grandma or Grandpa around, how would one prove prior ownership?


Thanks,

Dogmeat (NFA Rookie who desperately wants a CAN)

Not without another amnesty registration period and I don't see that anytime soon. You could cut it up for parts and that would really suck!

some things are better kept secret.

Thanks for the info, it's about what I expected.

I hear stories about this happening now and again, and I always wondered. Since I've got about as much chance of finding one as I do winning the $500M Powerball, it doesn't really matter. Besides, if I did win the Powerball, could just buy one!

Thanks Again.

That is more of a dont ask, dont tell kind of situation.

The first rule about grandma's Thompson is, don't talk about grandma's Thompson!

The second rule about grandma's Thompson is, don't talk about it on a public forum!

The illegal "silencer" that they show in the video for the M11 is just a ventilated barrel extension.

Jed195 said:

The first rule about grandma's Thompson is, don't talk about grandma's Thompson!

The second rule about grandma's Thompson is, don't talk about it on a public forum!

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If it were true, you would never know I exist!

do what Sgt. Schultz does.

This is happening more and more as WWII and Korea vets have been passing away in droves. The only thing I will say on this subject is that there will be A LOT of surprizes if another amnesty is granted or if the registry opens due to a repeal of 922 (o).

If I understand what you are asking, you find your grandpas legally registered NFA weapon. You should be able to transfer ownership over to a family member. The ATF should have records of it being registered to your relative, although the rumors are that the older records aren't always accurate.

ericoak said:

If I understand what you are asking, you find your grandpas legally registered NFA weapon. You should be able to transfer ownership over to a family member. The ATF should have records of it being registered to your relative, although the rumors are that the older records aren't always accurate.

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I think the case here is that the weapon was not registered. You are more or less screwed in this scenario.

erwos said:

I think the case here is that the weapon was not registered. You are more or less screwed in this scenario.

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That's what I thought except the last sentence said that neither of them are around to prove ownership. Why would proving ownership matter unless it was legal? Kind of confusing the way it is written.

ericoak said:

That's what I thought except the last sentence said that neither of them are around to prove ownership. Why would proving ownership matter unless it was legal? Kind of confusing the way it is written.

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That may be my lack of understanding of the laws. I made the hypothetical assumption that "Grandpa" would have bought the Thompson way back in say "19 Ought Something" back when all he needed was cash at the store. If he never knew it had to be registered he wouldn't have. That was the situation I was surmising.

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Kind of reminds me of one of the Death Wish movies, where a character who was a WWII vet opens a closet to show Charles Bronson 2 belt-fed 30 cal machine guns.

lsw said:

Kind of reminds me of one of the Death Wish movies, where a character who was a WWII vet opens a closet to show Charles Bronson 2 belt-fed 30 cal machine guns.

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Don't forget the rocket launcher.

This situation is pretty black and white - if it's already NFA papered, it can be transferred, although if it was never transferred from Grandpa to Grandma and both are now dead, it would have to be transferred to the next of kin before it could be sold or transferred to anyone else.

I specifically know of a situation where a guy who passed away owned a registered pre WW II Thompson, and the widow, for whatever reason, didn't file any transfer paperwork until about 11 years after the fact. While technically laws were broken, the ATF is not into imprisoning or taking heirlooms away from widows, and once the proper forms were submitted, the transfer was approved without a hitch.

Dogmeat said:

....

Suppose someone is helping clean up Grandma's house after she passes away and they come across Grandpa's original pre'68 Thompson, M14, M16, whatever. Now what? Turing it in for $100 gift card would be about as stupid a thing as I can imagine. But, is it still possible to legally transfer that firearm to another individual, following the proper NFA procedures of course, or is it too late as the firearm was never put on the registry (assuming that one exists )? With neither Grandma or Grandpa around, how would one prove prior ownership?..

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Most of these answer above are not really that good.

First thing is to tear through all the Grandparents paper and see if you can find ANY papers related to the guns. Even if they are not ATF papers. If you find anything, you have a good chance of being able to bring the paperwork up to date. If its an ATF form, then its easy to transfer the gun. If there is Military paperwork allowing him to bring it back, you can force ATF to registered it. Basically if the Government, any branch, ever gave permission for the person to have the gun, it can likely be registered.

Assuming no paperwork is found, ask relatives if they know anything. IF they were registered, you can get copies and transfer the guns legally. If no one knows, its best to look at hiring a lawyer. Have the lawyer call the ATF and ask to see if they are registered. He will need serial numbers and the ORIGINAL owners name. If registered, it can be transferred. If not then you don't have to worry about the ATF knocking at the door. This happens a fairly often.

There are people in the industry who are very good at helping people with this process.

Assuming they are for sure not registered.... you are really left with a few choices. You can ATF Form 10 them to a museum and the guns will escape the torch. However no museum is going to pay you for it. If you wish to get money out of the deal, the next best option is to strip the receiver. The parts on most of these guns have a lot of value. Then torch cut to ATF spec and sell as a parts kit. If you do not wish to torch, you can call ATF and have them come get the receiver. However the key here is making sure ALL the parts are stripped and Identifying the correct part as the receiver.

The option is always to un-find the gun. However ownership an illegal MG does carry a 10 year jail sentence. So I never suggest this route.

The thing to remember is that these guns have very significant historic and monetary value. Its well worth the effort to see if the gun had been registered!

trickg said:

... Grandpa to Grandma and both are now dead, it would have to be transferred to the next of kin before it could be sold or transferred to anyone else.

I specifically know of a situation where a guy who passed away owned a registered pre WW II Thompson, and the widow, for whatever reason, didn't file any transfer paperwork until about 11 years after the fact. While technically laws were broken, the ATF is not into imprisoning or taking heirlooms away from widows, and once the proper forms were submitted, the transfer was approved without a hitch.

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Thats not true. The executor of estate can transfer it to anyone.

While the gun should have been transferred ASAP, no laws were really broken or you can bet the ATF would have taken the gun. The gun was registered. Not keeping the paperwork up to date carries no penalty that I have found. Its just not a good idea.

My father wanted to bring back a Thompson from WW2 but was afraid that he would get caught so I got no Thompson. That same theory kept people from registering their borrowed guns later on.

I don't think it is legal to "dewat" it now. The ATF isn't going to give you $100, either.

There was a bill in the last congress to grant amnesty to veterans and their family but it did not pass.