Erma Werke Germany

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    WOW! Who'd have thought that? I'll check the bottom of the ammo can and give 'em a try this week.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    So, here is my explanation.

    The chamber on the LA22 has the rifling engaging the bullet before the bullet is fully seated.

    Being an inexpensive gun, the machining is not great on the internals and the bolt surfaces that rub on the frame are a bit rough.

    My modern 22 magazines do a good job of holding each and every round up and out of the magazine enough to extract (looking at my buckmark for example)

    The Erma once you get past 2 rounds in the mag, the nose does not stick up as much and requires more force to pop the nose up as it runs into the front top of the magazine.

    So to get a proper feed, it has to overcome the resistance to feeding plus seat the bullet jamming the bullet into the rifling.

    I have found that unless I am using hi V ammo, I don't get last round open or it won't retract the bolt enough back to pull the next round.

    So, you need the bold going all the way back and the strength of the spring to slam the bullet back in.



    So, if you have HI V ammo and a bullet where the shape of the bullet does not have the rifling engage the part of the bullet that is at full diameter (those band things), then you have a good combination.



    Also, the chamber is pretty tight too, Im suprised that the bulk ammo with wax all over the case (cause its bulk ammo) did well.



    Remington ammo engages the rifling less than say ccI. Plus the soft lead has less resistance than the copper washed minimag.



    If the chamber were reamed out to remove the rifling and maybe a smidgen larger, this thing would be less picky.
     
    Last edited:

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    Melnic,
    I think you hit it!
    I hand chambered some CCI and Federal 22LR. They won't drop in more than half way and they needed thumb pressure to force the last 1/10". Looking at the bullets under a magnifying glass, the bullets were slightly engraved the same distance as the little thumb push to get them fully seated.
    Chamber reaming will require tearing it all the way down again to get access. A standard sporter profile reamer from Brownells is about $54 shipped. Almost as much as I originally paid for it!

    The Gun Kote is HK black. It does look better than the factory "blue" paint and pot metal finish it had. The toggles are the original blued steel.
    Not worth paying for, but it's a hobby and my time is paid in enjoyment.

    hRMo2d1.jpg
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Nice pic !

    The trouble with the LA22 is the barrel is all part of the upper frame. When I honed the chamber I JB welded the fuzzy bit to a spare cleaning rod section then chucked up in a drill.

    One other thing to add. For an old 22, I have yet to see any issues with weak firing pin strikes. Even with the remington I expected some duds but this Erma set them all off

    These Ermas can definitely be a project gun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Oldcarjunkie

    R.I.P
    Jan 8, 2009
    12,217
    A.A county
    Nice pic !

    The trouble with the LA22 is the barrel is all part of the upper frame. When I honed the chamber I JB welded the fuzzy bit to a spare cleaning rod section then chucked up in a drill.

    One other thing to add. For an old 22, I have yet to see any issues with weak firing pin strikes. Even with the remington I expected some duds but this Erma set them all off

    These Ermas can definitely be a project gun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I bought one today for 60.00 plus tax the guy had in the shop for ages and says that it "didnt work" but didnt remember why. just said they sold it and guy bought it back ages ago and its been a paper weight ever since. I looked it over and it seemed to me that there was no obvious issue so i kinda figured this would be the issue with them. I guess ill be playing with it once i pick it up.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I bought one today for 60.00 plus tax the guy had in the shop for ages and says that it "didnt work" but didnt remember why. just said they sold it and guy bought it back ages ago and its been a paper weight ever since. I looked it over and it seemed to me that there was no obvious issue so i kinda figured this would be the issue with them. I guess ill be playing with it once i pick it up.

    Awesome! Let us know if it cycles ok with snap caps.

    Take some various 22 and slowly slide it into the chamber to see how far it gets and if there is resistance.
    WHen I first got it, there was a youtube video I saw, but can't find it now. Last time I took it down, I used the manual pdf I attached.
     

    Oldcarjunkie

    R.I.P
    Jan 8, 2009
    12,217
    A.A county
    Awesome! Let us know if it cycles ok with snap caps.

    Take some various 22 and slowly slide it into the chamber to see how far it gets and if there is resistance.
    WHen I first got it, there was a youtube video I saw, but can't find it now. Last time I took it down, I used the manual pdf I attached.


    Will do, it will be a week before i can get them , I bought two other high dollar pistols i will be picking them up next week same day so is gonna be a good day :D
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    I bought one today for 60.00 plus tax the guy had in the shop for ages and says that it "didnt work" but didnt remember why. just said they sold it and guy bought it back ages ago and its been a paper weight ever since. I looked it over and it seemed to me that there was no obvious issue so i kinda figured this would be the issue with them. I guess ill be playing with it once i pick it up.

    Pretty cool OCJ. :thumbsup: Anxious to hear how it works for you.
    Pics will be a plus - even if not taken on the old wooden bench. ;)
     

    Oldcarjunkie

    R.I.P
    Jan 8, 2009
    12,217
    A.A county
    Pretty cool OCJ. :thumbsup: Anxious to hear how it works for you.
    Pics will be a plus - even if not taken on the old wooden bench. ;)

    Its really filthy right now as they said it came into the shop in 1997 and i guess was sold and brought right back by guy claiming it "didnt work".
     

    Attachments

    • Erma 22.jpg
      Erma 22.jpg
      36.8 KB · Views: 328

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    Its really filthy right now as they said it came into the shop in 1997 and i guess was sold and brought right back by guy claiming it "didnt work".

    Great find and price. :thumbsup: Looks lot like the Stoeger Luger I have. But when you get it apart to clean it they are quite different. I think you'll have a lot of fun getting it working and shooting it. Let us know how it goes!

    BTW, there's always an open invitation for you to join us at a Hooligan shoot some day. Food for thought, my friend... ;)
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Dave,
    The finish fades easily on these . Worse case you can part it out. It is surely worth a try to get it to shoot.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Oldcarjunkie

    R.I.P
    Jan 8, 2009
    12,217
    A.A county
    Dave,
    The finish fades easily on these . Worse case you can part it out. It is surely worth a try to get it to shoot.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Finish Looks great but is under a bunch of dust/dirt, i had to run my thumb over the serial like 5 times to be able to see it. :lol2:
     

    Oldcarjunkie

    R.I.P
    Jan 8, 2009
    12,217
    A.A county
    Great find and price. :thumbsup: Looks lot like the Stoeger Luger I have. But when you get it apart to clean it they are quite different. I think you'll have a lot of fun getting it working and shooting it. Let us know how it goes!

    BTW, there's always an open invitation for you to join us at a Hooligan shoot some day. Food for thought, my friend... ;)


    Thank you Sir, we need to make that happen sometime this summer. :party29::party29:
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    I got a "Sporter" 22 chamber reamer and attacked my Erma 22.
    Bubba would be proud. Lacking a correct size extension, I epoxied the reamer into a 1/4" extension and used a large collet type tap handle.
    It's easy not to go too deep on this The case headspaces on the rim and the reamer has a flat cutter at that point. Just got close enough that I still saw light, but the CCI and Federal rounds I dropped in didn't hit the rifling anymore. Then the chamber was polished by the "Melnic Method".
    Good news is they drop in and drop out!
    Bad news is I haven't gotten to the range.

    If it works well, I have a 22 Sporter chamber reamer available for loan if anyone wants to try it. Let me shoot her first and post results. Can't be worse, but may not be better.

    PS Reamer is a Manson "Standard 22 Long Rifle"
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I got a "Sporter" 22 chamber reamer and attacked my Erma 22.

    Awesome, I'm awaiting your results. I moved back in June to a new place and so many of my tools and bits and bobs are in boxes. I finally found my extention bits this weekend. I had toyed with the idea of using a 5.7mm drill bit and fixing my barrel to my drill press and having a go. I also found my flex hone 22 cal honing brush. I'll hold off doing anything till I hear your results.

    I think I may have posted it earlier but I did take some sizes of sand paper and smoothed out the tooling marks on the bolt. Not sure the poor magazine design can be dealt with other than brute force with HV ammo. If you can make CCI Minimags work, that will be awesome!
     

    Oldcarjunkie

    R.I.P
    Jan 8, 2009
    12,217
    A.A county
    I got a "Sporter" 22 chamber reamer and attacked my Erma 22.
    Bubba would be proud. Lacking a correct size extension, I epoxied the reamer into a 1/4" extension and used a large collet type tap handle.
    It's easy not to go too deep on this The case headspaces on the rim and the reamer has a flat cutter at that point. Just got close enough that I still saw light, but the CCI and Federal rounds I dropped in didn't hit the rifling anymore. Then the chamber was polished by the "Melnic Method".
    Good news is they drop in and drop out!
    Bad news is I haven't gotten to the range.

    If it works well, I have a 22 Sporter chamber reamer available for loan if anyone wants to try it. Let me shoot her first and post results. Can't be worse, but may not be better.

    PS Reamer is a Manson "Standard 22 Long Rifle"

    Fingers crossed it's good news. I would definitely like to borrow and do the same thing to mine as I'm pretty sure that's what's going to be wrong with it once I pick it up. Get the pick it up next Saturday.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    In researching 22LR chambers, I found that there are different specs:
    Type______Length__Mouth Dia._Throat Dia._Taper @ Throat
    Sporting____0.7751"____0.2307"____0.2270"
    Bentz______0.6900"____0.2270"____0.2255"_____1.5° Taper
    Match _____0.6000"____0.2270"____0.2250"
    Win 52-D___0.5800"____0.2278"____0.2248"_____2.0° Taper

    For example,
    The "Ruger" 10/22 factory chamber is the "Sporting" chamber above. Sporting is a reliable chamber spec for semi auto 22LR firearms

    The "Bentz" chamber is the 'match' chamber for semi-autos.
    The "Match" chamber is for bolt actions.
    The "Win M52-D" is a bolt action target rifle.

    The longer the length, the farther the bullet goes until it engages the rifling. The trade off is the target bolt actions, will drive the bullet into the rifling when you close the bolt. So there is no jump into a forcing cone. Many reloaders get anal about reducing the amount the bullet has to move before engaging rifling. With a 22, we can see with the Erma, a short chamber is disastrous for reliability if you don't give the rest of the gun design efficient and strong loading of the bullet.

    I just have this feeling a German Engineer tried to get cute with a short chamber getting accuracy out of one ammo type he had in the lab on a brand new hand tweeked gun design that was new and clean. Not thinking long term reliability with different ammo types. I'm sure that Engineer/designer is dead now, so he can't argue with me on this point :)
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,930
    Messages
    7,259,470
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom