Racine's 10/5/17 "Faq"

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  • rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/fi...hments/Concealed_Carry_FAQs_FINAL_REVISED.pdf

    FAQ on the District’s Concealed-Carry Requirements After the Wrenn and Grace Decisions Take Effect

    Q: Since you aren’t asking the Supreme Court to review the D.C. Circuit decision, when does their ruling removing the District’s “good reason” requirement take effect? A: It will take effect when the D.C. Circuit issues what the courts call a “mandate” that effectuates its decision. That should happen at some point in the next few days.


    Q: What is the “good reason” requirement? A: The “good reason” standard required anyone applying for a permit to carry a concealed handgun in the District to demonstrate, in addition to meeting other criteria, a “good or other proper reason” for needing the permit.


    Q: So, when that rule disappears, can anyone carry a concealed handgun in the District? A: No; even without the “good reason” requirement, applicants for a concealed handgun must meet several other criteria, such as: • They must possess a valid registration certificate for the firearm to be carried or apply for and receive one concurrently with the application for a carry permit. • They cannot have a conviction for a felony or certain weapons offenses. • They cannot be under indictment for a crime of violence or a weapons offense. • They cannot have been, in the five years prior to applying for the permit, convicted of certain misdemeanor offenses, including: o Any violation of D.C. Code § 22-404 regarding assaults or threats, or D.C. Code § 22-407 regarding threats to do bodily harm, or equivalent thereof in another jurisdiction; o Two or more violations of any law restricting driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; o Any intrafamily offense punishable as a misdemeanor; o Any stalking offense under D.C. Code 22-3133. • They cannot have been, in the five years prior to applying for the permit: o Acquitted of any criminal charge by reason of insanity; o Determined to be a chronic alcoholic by any court. • They must meet certain criteria for mental stability: o They cannot have been, in the five years prior to applying for the permit, voluntarily or involuntarily committed to any mental hospital or institution; o They cannot have, in the five years prior to applying for a permit, suffered from, and cannot currently suffer from, any mental illness or condition that creates a substantial risk that they are a danger to themselves or others. • They cannot be blind or appear to suffer from any physical defect that would prevent them from possessing and using a firearm safely and responsibly.
    2

    • They cannot have been found negligent in a firearm mishap causing death or serious injury to another person. • They cannot be otherwise ineligible to possess a firearm under D.C. Code 22-4503, such as: o Being a fugitive from justice; o Being addicted to any controlled substance. • They must have completed a firearms safety and training course and range training certified by the Chief the Metropolitan Police Department (or demonstrate that they have completed the equivalent in another jurisdiction). • They must have completed an in-person interview with the Metropolitan Police Department.


    Q: Can those who do hold a concealed-carry permit in the District carry them anywhere in the city, at any time? A: No. Similar to the time, place, and manner restrictions on the exercise of First Amendment rights, there are certain limitations on the times and places where a permit holder may carry a concealed handgun in the District. Permit holders cannot carry their handguns: • While they are consuming alcohol or are otherwise impaired; • In a District government building; • On the grounds of childcare facility, public or private school or university; • At a hospital or medical/mental health office; • At a penal institute, secure juvenile facility, or halfway house; • At a polling place while voting is occurring; • On public transportation, including in Metro stations; • On premises where alcohol is served; • At a stadium or arena; • At a gathering or special event open to the public; • In certain specified buffer zones, including: o Any area where firearms are prohibited by federal law, including the U.S. Capitol building and grounds; o Public memorials on the National Mall and along the Tidal Basin; o White House zone, up to and including to the curb of the adjacent sidewalks touching the roadways of the area bounded by Constitution Avenue NW, 15th Street NW, H Street NW, and 17th Street NW; o U.S. Naval Observatory zone, including the area from the perimeter of its fence up to and including to the curb of the adjacent sidewalks touching the roadway of Observatory Circle NW, from Calvert Street NW, to Massachusetts Avenue NW, and around Observatory Circle to the far corner of Observatory Lane; o Within 1,000 feet of a dignitary or high-ranking official moving under lawenforcement protection when law enforcement provides notice of the designated area and that firearms are prohibited; o Within 1,000 feet of a public demonstration.
    3



    Q: What are the rules for carrying on private property? A: There are three categories of private property under the District’s concealed-carry law; for two categories, concealed carry is presumed illegal unless explicitly authorized by the property’s owners/operators; for the third category, concealed carry is presumed legal unless the property’s owners/operators have posted signage indicating otherwise: • On private residential property, concealed carry is presumed illegal unless otherwise authorized by the owner in advance of entry; • At houses of worship, unless otherwise prohibited by law, concealed carry is presumed illegal unless the institution has authorized concealed carry and posted that policy with conspicuous signage; • On other private non-residential property, concealed carry is presumed legal unless the owners and operators have posted conspicuous signage prohibiting firearms.


    Q: May individuals obtain a permit for open carry under the District’s law? A: No; only concealed carry is permitted under District law.


    Q: Is there a renewal requirement for concealed-carry permits? A: Yes. Concealed carry permit holders must renew their permits every two (2) years.


    Q: What about the people who have applied for concealed-carry permits who met all the other criteria, but were rejected because they did not demonstrate a “good reason” under the old law? What happens to them now? A: Prior applicants who were denied a permit for failure to comply with the “good reason” requirement should submit an updated application reflecting any changes to eligibility criteria. There is no new fee to resubmit. Those who have applications already pending but have not received a determination do not need to resubmit.

    Q: Where can I get more information? A: The laws governing the ownership and carrying of handguns can be found at D.C. Code §§ 72502.01 – 7-2502.16; D.C. Code §§ 7-2509.01 – 7-2509.11; D.C. Code §§ 22-4501 – 22-4517; and 24 DCMR §§ 2300 – 2399. Information and application materials for permits are available at the Metropolitan Police Department’s website at https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/applying-concealedcarry-pistol-license.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    I gues I find it interesting that this is not included:
    § 22–4502.01. Gun free zones; enhanced penalty.
    (a) All areas within, 1000 feet of an appropriately identified public or private day care center, elementary school, vocational school, secondary school, college, junior college, or university, or any public swimming pool, playground, video arcade, youth center, or public library, or in and around public housing as defined in section 3(1) of the United States Housing Act of 1937, approved August 22, 1974 (88 Stat. 654; 42 U.S.C. § 1437a(b)), the development or administration of which is assisted by the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development, or in or around housing that is owned, operated, or financially assisted by the District of Columbia Housing Authority, or an event sponsored by any of the above entities shall be declared a gun free zone. For the purposes of this subsection, the term “appropriately identified” means that there is a sign that identifies the building or area as a gun free zone.
    Edit: removed 1,000' issue after discussing with MPD and other experts, and more carefully reading the statue, I am now certain, it only refers to persons without licenses or if licensed, commiting specific gun crime
     
    Last edited:

    CypherPunk

    Opinions Are My Own
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,907
    07c795e9bf49fa8a0f92078deed1e532.jpg


    https://crimeresearch.org/2017/10/d...-effectively-ban-anyone-legally-carrying-gun/
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253


    I have a lot of respect for Professor Lott. he is a sane voice in academia dealing with firearms, and his work on modeling historic trends actually tuned out to be correct for future predictions. History proved him correct and the jackass gun control adovacy researchers turned out to be wrong. so kudos to him generally.

    That said I did some research today talking to a someone who does have an expertise in firearm law, and who looked at all of Dc code, and also took some time to speak with someone senior at MPD.

    I now do not believe Lot's map is accurate. I believe that that map, and DC law it is drawn from (§ 22–4502.01) refer to already illegal possession, or illegal activities with a firearm, and enhanced penalties.

    Otherwise it is in conflict with e much more explicit set of code that specifically refers to us:
    § 7–2509.07. Prohibitions on carrying licensed pistols.
    (a) No person holding a license shall carry a pistol in the following locations or under the following circumstances:
    (1) A building or office occupied by the District of Columbia, its agencies, or instrumentalities;
    (2) The building and grounds, including any adjacent parking lot, of an childcare facility, preschool, public or private elementary or secondary school; or a public or private college or university;
    (3) A hospital, or an office where medical or mental health services are the primary services provided;
    (4) A penal institution, secure juvenile residential facility, or halfway house;
    (5) A polling place while voting is occurring;
    (6) A public transportation vehicle, including the Metrorail transit system and its stations;
    (7) Any premises, or portion thereof, where alcohol is served, or sold and consumed on the premises, pursuant to a license issued under Title 25; provided, that this prohibition shall not apply to premises operating under a temporary license issued pursuant to § 25-115, a C/R, D/R, C/H, D/H or caterer license issued pursuant to § 25-113, or premises with small-sample tasting permits issued pursuant to § 25-118, unless otherwise prohibited pursuant to subsection (b)(3) of this section;
    (8) A stadium or arena;
    (9) A gathering or special event open to the public; provided, that no licensee shall be criminally prosecuted unless:
    (A) The organizer or the District has provided notice prohibiting the carrying of pistols in advance of the gathering or special event and by posted signage at the gathering or special event; or
    (B) The licensee has been ordered by a law enforcement officer to leave the area of the gathering or special event and the licensee has not complied with the order;
    (10) The public memorials on the National Mall and along the Tidal Basin, and any area where firearms are prohibited under federal law or by a federal agency or entity, including U.S. Capitol buildings and grounds;
    (11) The White House Complex and its grounds up to and including to the curb of the adjacent sidewalks touching the roadways of the area bounded by Constitution Avenue, N.W., 15th Street, N.W., H Street, N.W., and 17th Street, N.W.;
    (12) The U.S. Naval Observatory and its fence line, including the area from the perimeter of its fence up to and including to the curb of the adjacent sidewalks touching the roadway of Observatory Circle, from Calvert Street, N.W., to Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., and around Observatory Circle to the far corner of Observatory Lane;
    (13)(A) When a dignitary or high-ranking official of the United States or a state, local, or foreign government is moving under the protection of the MPD, the U.S. Secret Service, the U.S. Capitol Police, or other law enforcement agency assisting or working in concert with MPD, within an area designated by the Chief, the Chief of the U.S. Secret Service, or the Chief of the U.S. Capitol Police, or a designee of any of the foregoing, that does not include any point at a distance greater than 1,000 feet from the moving dignitary or high-ranking official; provided, that no licensee shall be criminally prosecuted unless:
    (i) The law enforcement agency provides notice of the designated area by the presence of signs, law enforcement vehicles or officers acting as a perimeter, or other means to make the designated area of protection obvious;
    (ii) The District or federal government has provided notice prohibiting the carrying of pistols along a designated route or in a designated area in advance of the event, if possible, and by posted signage along a route or in a designated area; or
    (iii) The licensee has been ordered by a law enforcement officer to leave the designated area and the licensee has not complied with the order.
    (B) For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “moving” shall include any planned or unplanned stops, including temporary stops, in locations open to the public.
    (14) When demonstration in a public place is occurring, within an area designated by the Chief or his or her designee, or other law enforcement agency, that does not include any point at a distance greater than 1,000 feet from the demonstration; provided, that no licensee shall be criminally prosecuted unless:
    (A) The law enforcement agency provides notice of the designated area by the presence of signs, law enforcement vehicles or officers acting as a perimeter, or other means to make the designated area of the demonstration obvious;
    (B) The District or federal government has provided notice prohibiting the carrying of pistols along or within a demonstration route or designated area in advance of the event, if possible, and by posted signage along a demonstration route or designated area; or
    (C) The licensee has been ordered by a law enforcement officer to leave the designated area and the licensee has not complied with the order; or
    (15) Any prohibited location or circumstance that the Chief determines by rule; provided, that for spontaneous circumstances, no criminal penalty shall apply unless the licensee has notice of the prohibition and has failed to comply.
    (b)(1) The carrying of a concealed pistol on private residential property shall be presumed to be prohibited unless otherwise authorized by the property owner or person in control of the premises and communicated personally to the licensee in advance of entry onto the residential property.
    (2) The carrying of a concealed pistol in a church, synagogue, mosque, or other place where people regularly assemble for religious worship shall be presumed to be prohibited unless the property is posted with conspicuous signage allowing the carrying of a concealed pistol, or the owner or authorized agent communicates such allowance personally to the licensee in advance of entry onto the property; provided, that such places may not authorize the carrying of a concealed pistol where services are conducted in locations listed in subsection (a) of this section.
    (3) The carrying of a concealed pistol on private property that is not a residence shall be presumed to be permitted unless the property is posted with conspicuous signage prohibiting the carrying of a concealed pistol, or the owner or authorized agent communicates such prohibition personally to the licensee.
    (c) Whenever a licensee carries a concealed pistol and approaches any prohibited location, or is subject to any prohibited circumstance, under subsection (a) or (b) of this section, the licensee shall:
    (1) If the licensee is in a vehicle or if a vehicle is readily available, immediately secure the pistol in the manner prescribed in § 22-4504.02(b); or
    (2) If the licensee does not have a vehicle available, immediately leave the prohibited location or circumstance.
    (d) A licensee shall not be in violation of this section:
    (1) While he or she is traveling along a public sidewalk that touches the perimeter of any of the premises where the carrying of a concealed pistol is prohibited under subsection (a) and subsection (b) of this section, except for the areas designated in subsection (a)(11) and (a)(12), or along a public street, roadway, or highway if the concealed pistol is carried on his or her person in accordance with this unit, or is being transported by the licensee in accordance with § 22-4504.02; or
    (2) While driving a vehicle into and immediately parking at any location listed in subsection (a)(2) of this section for the purpose of picking up or dropping off a student or a child; provided, that the licensee shall secure the concealed pistol in accordance with § 22-4504.02(b), before leaving the parked vehicle.
    (e) A licensee shall not carry a pistol openly or otherwise in a manner that is not concealed.
    (f) In addition to any other penalty provided by law, any person who violates this section shall be subject to revocation of his or her license.
    (g) For the purposes of this section, the term:
    (1) “Demonstration” means one or more persons demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking, marching, holding a vigil, or engaging in any other similar conduct that involves the communication or expression of views or grievances and that has the effect, intent, or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers. The term “demonstration” does not include the casual use of property by visitors or tourists that does not have the effect, intent, or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.
    (2) “Public place” means a place to which the general public has access and a right to occupy for business, entertainment, or other lawful purpose. The term “public place” is not limited to a place devoted solely to the uses of the public, and includes:
    (A) The front or immediate area or parking lot of a store, restaurant, tavern, shopping center, or other place of business;
    (B) A public building, including its grounds and curtilage;
    (C) A public parking lot;
    (D) A public street, sidewalk, or right-of-way;
    (E) A public park; and
    (F) Other public grounds.
    (3) “Public transportation vehicle” means any publicly owned or operated commercial vehicle, including any DC Circulator bus, DC Streetcar, MetroAccess vehicle, Metrobus, or Metrorail train.
    (4) “Residence” means a building wholly or partly used or intended to be used for living and sleeping by human occupants, together with any fences, walls, sheds, garages, or other accessory buildings appurtenant to the building, and the area of land surrounding the building and actually or by legal construction forming one enclosure in which such a building is located, but does not include adjacent common areas or commercial property contained in any part of the building.

    I am not giving any legal advise. Get some if you are concerned. I personally intend to use the above. it is already complex enough.
     

    CypherPunk

    Opinions Are My Own
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,907
    I was at the MPD SOMB all morning and Firearms Registration all afternoon.
    Discussed the map with Sgt Hall and I am still concerned.
    Who did you talk with, and what makes you think a law that doesn't prohibit something, negate a law that does?
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    I was at the MPD SOMB all morning and Firearms Registration all afternoon.
    Discussed the map with Sgt Hall and I am still concerned.
    Who did you talk with, and what makes you think a law that doesn't prohibit something, negate a law that does?

    What makes me think a law that is about illegally carrying also prohibits legal carry? the fact that they are two different things. The way I read § 22–4502.01 it does not apply to people who have a valid CCL, and are not printing, illegally brandishing, carrying more than 20 rounds or not robbing a bank.

    That law says it is about people who are illegally carrying. ie have no registration and carry license, or fi they do, are printing, brandishing etc

    I am personally not concerned. one (§ 7-2509.07) makes sense, and one does not make sense as applicable to concealed carriers committing no other crime in at least three separate logical analyses.

    Since you are concerned and as an instructor you are right adn responsible to want to give the best info, I suggest you formally ask for a formal answer to something along the following lines (and you are in the best positon to ask for this since the district can say to the rest of us "ask a lawyer" but they should answer you since they have charged you with this training and could be embarrassing to the city if they refused to give a definitive answer to you)

    Penalty based question:
    1) "What is the penalty under § 22–4502.01 for a civilian valid DC licensed concealed carrier who is legally carrying if 800'; from a school or playground, that is not within 1,000 of his home or business? "

    or

    2) "§ 7-2509.07 seems to have the specific areas where otherwise legal concealed firearm carry by civilian CCLt holders is prohibit. Is it correct to understand that the other section of code § 22–4502.01 is, or is not, an outright prohibition within 1000' in areas mentioned, but properly understood as doubling of penalties for other gun crimes within that 1000 radius? "

    if hall can't get the chief to issue a memo, then this should be formally submitted to Mendelson or Racine on behalf of the instructors.


    Here is why I think Lott's claim is unsupported

    § 7-2509.07= "concealed carry specific code"
    § 22–4502.01 = "gun free zone enhanced penalty code"

    1) Firstly those two sections conflict. Examples: why would 7-2509.07, which is specifically for licensed concealed carriers, say the following if there as already a 1,000' prohibition meant for licensed carriers.
    (d) A licensee shall not be in violation of this section:
    (1) While he or she is traveling along a public sidewalk that touches the perimeter of any of the premises where the carrying of a concealed pistol is prohibited under subsection (a) and subsection (b) of this section, except for the areas designated in subsection (a)(11) and (a)(12), or along a public street, roadway, or highway if the concealed pistol is carried on his or her person in accordance with this unit, or is being transported by the licensee in accordance with § 22-4504.02; or
    (2) While driving a vehicle into and immediately parking at any location listed in subsection (a)(2) of this section for the purpose of picking up or dropping off a student or a child; provided, that the licensee shall secure the concealed pistol in accordance with § 22-4504.02(b), before leaving the parked vehicle.
    (a11 and a12 at the white house grounds and naval observatory grounds)


    2) Moreover the verbiage code Lott used in § 22–4502.01 , if applied to licensed carriers says if you live with a 1,000' zone you are exempt from all of them. That is crazy if it is meant to prohibit legal carry by concealed carriers committing no other crime.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person legally licensed to carry a firearm in the District of Columbia who lives or works within 1000 feet of a gun free zone

    Lott's interpretation means if I live in Logan and have a CLL I am 100% exempted from from all DC gun free zone 'zones" including htose in NE, SE, Tenley, Tacoma. But if I live in one of the few areas, say in the southern tip of DC where I am not within 1,000 feet of a gun free zone than § 22–4502.01 gun free zones in NE, SE, Tenley, Tacoma apply to me? That is crazy.
    EG; Jane lives somewhere in NW not within 1,000' of a gun free Zone. Joe lives NE and is within 1,000 of a gun free zone. Joe and Jane are in a car legally carrying committing no per se infraction, together 800' from American university in NW (miles from both their homes), and Jane is committing a crime and Joe is not?


    3) there is no penalty for § 22–4502.01. Meaning it requires another violation to trigger it. It only says "double" the penalty of what can only be the OTHER law you are breaking: eg extant gun crimes, such as robbery with a gun, "unregistered gun" crimes such as possessing ammo without a registration, possessing a gun without a registration, or concealed a gun without a CC license, in the case of us with licenses, having a concealed carry but printing, having a concealed carry but having >20 live rounds or holding up a bank with our CCL gun

    Looking at other jurisdictions it seems to be the same. there seem to be two different kinds of "gun free zones." One where licensed carriers can't go like 7-2509.07 and a different type s aimed at giving extra protection against actual gun crimes where if you do go and commit a crime, carry license or not, the penalties are doubled.

    I live in a 'school zone' block. there is no penalty for legally driving on it. But the penalties for specific violations, running a light or stop signs, speeding etc are doubled, ie that "zone" concept is often about increasing sanctions not creating new crimes.

    Again I emphasize I am not an attorney (although like a lot of people who live and work in Dc I do occasional have to work with legislation and code) and I not giving anyone advice on how they may see this
     

    CypherPunk

    Opinions Are My Own
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,907
    Upon reflection and advice, my interpretation is that the Gun Free Schools Act is an enhancement statute. One needs to read the entire act.

    It doubles the penalty for illegal carry. It does not make any additional areas off limits. Since carrying with a license is legal except where it is prohibited, there is no penalty. Thus, no penalty times two, is still no penalty.

    What makes me think a law that is about illegally carrying also prohibits legal carry? the fact that they are two different things. The way I read § 22–4502.01 it does not apply to people who have a valid CCL, and are not printing, illegally brandishing, carrying more than 20 rounds or not robbing a bank.

    That law says it is about people who are illegally carrying. ie have no registration and carry license, or fi they do, are printing, brandishing etc

    I am personally not concerned. one (§ 7-2509.07) makes sense, and one does not make sense as applicable to concealed carriers committing no other crime in at least three separate logical analyses.

    Since you are concerned and as an instructor you are right adn responsible to want to give the best info, I suggest you formally ask for a formal answer to something along the following lines (and you are in the best positon to ask for this since the district can say to the rest of us "ask a lawyer" but they should answer you since they have charged you with this training and could be embarrassing to the city if they refused to give a definitive answer to you)

    Penalty based question:
    1) "What is the penalty under § 22–4502.01 for a civilian valid DC licensed concealed carrier who is legally carrying if 800'; from a school or playground, that is not within 1,000 of his home or business? "

    or

    2) "§ 7-2509.07 seems to have the specific areas where otherwise legal concealed firearm carry by civilian CCLt holders is prohibit. Is it correct to understand that the other section of code § 22–4502.01 is, or is not, an outright prohibition within 1000' in areas mentioned, but properly understood as doubling of penalties for other gun crimes within that 1000 radius? "

    if hall can't get the chief to issue a memo, then this should be formally submitted to Mendelson or Racine on behalf of the instructors.


    Here is why I think Lott's claim is unsupported

    § 7-2509.07= "concealed carry specific code"
    § 22–4502.01 = "gun free zone enhanced penalty code"

    1) Firstly those two sections conflict. Examples: why would 7-2509.07, which is specifically for licensed concealed carriers, say the following if there as already a 1,000' prohibition meant for licensed carriers.

    (a11 and a12 at the white house grounds and naval observatory grounds)


    2) Moreover the verbiage code Lott used in § 22–4502.01 , if applied to licensed carriers says if you live with a 1,000' zone you are exempt from all of them. That is crazy if it is meant to prohibit legal carry by concealed carriers committing no other crime.



    Lott's interpretation means if I live in Logan and have a CLL I am 100% exempted from from all DC gun free zone 'zones" including htose in NE, SE, Tenley, Tacoma. But if I live in one of the few areas, say in the southern tip of DC where I am not within 1,000 feet of a gun free zone than § 22–4502.01 gun free zones in NE, SE, Tenley, Tacoma apply to me? That is crazy.
    EG; Jane lives somewhere in NW not within 1,000' of a gun free Zone. Joe lives NE and is within 1,000 of a gun free zone. Joe and Jane are in a car legally carrying committing no per se infraction, together 800' from American university in NW (miles from both their homes), and Jane is committing a crime and Joe is not?


    3) there is no penalty for § 22–4502.01. Meaning it requires another violation to trigger it. It only says "double" the penalty of what can only be the OTHER law you are breaking: eg extant gun crimes, such as robbery with a gun, "unregistered gun" crimes such as possessing ammo without a registration, possessing a gun without a registration, or concealed a gun without a CC license, in the case of us with licenses, having a concealed carry but printing, having a concealed carry but having >20 live rounds or holding up a bank with our CCL gun

    Looking at other jurisdictions it seems to be the same. there seem to be two different kinds of "gun free zones." One where licensed carriers can't go like 7-2509.07 and a different type s aimed at giving extra protection against actual gun crimes where if you do go and commit a crime, carry license or not, the penalties are doubled.

    I live in a 'school zone' block. there is no penalty for legally driving on it. But the penalties for specific violations, running a light or stop signs, speeding etc are doubled, ie that "zone" concept is often about increasing sanctions not creating new crimes.

    Again I emphasize I am not an attorney (although like a lot of people who live and work in Dc I do occasional have to work with legislation and code) and I not giving anyone advice on how they may see this
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,486
    Westminster USA
    Looking at the map, I don't know why Columbia Island is a GFZ. Perhaps the snack bar at the Marina, but even there those are contract employees, not Federal Employees.

    Is it posted no guns?
     

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