Where in the Law?

ForcedSig · Oct 27, 2015

Im being forced to move to Maryland for work. Ive been on the phone with MSP about my LWRC M6ICSPR. They have assured me it is legal to bring in and possess and also said I don't have to register it. With that being said when I asked them where it was specifically exempted in the law they couldn't tell me. Im not sure if its exempted under the heavy barrel or the Piston system but can anyone tell me, specifically if they know, where this rifle or the piston operating system is shown as OK in the law. Thanks in advance.

As you can see this is my first post and this forum has been great about answering a lot of my questions.

Pinecone · Oct 27, 2015

It is not specifically exempted.

But it does not meet the requirements to be a copy of an enumerated banned firearm. The piston system does this. Under an AG letter, the two firearms must be parts interchangeable and still function.

There used to be a place were you could look up specific firearms to see if they are banned or not, but I thought it was not up any longer. Someone else may be able to help.

Also, if it has a heavy barrel (stamped that or as specified by the manufacturer, then it is exempted by the HBAR exemption.

aireyc · Oct 27, 2015

If it's not banned by the law then it's legal. The law didn't ban all guns then carve out exemptions. Only the enumerated guns, their copies, and the copycat test specify what is banned. If your gun doesn't fall under any of those categories or if you owned it before October 1, 2013 then you're good to go.

unshat · Oct 27, 2015

Scroll to the bottom for the constantly growing list.

http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizati...LicensingDivision/Firearms/FirearmSearch.aspx

redeemed.man · Oct 27, 2015

Pinecone said:
It is not specifically exempted.

But it does not meet the requirements to be a copy of an enumerated banned firearm. The piston system does this. Under an AG letter, the two firearms must be parts interchangeable and still function.

There used to be a place were you could look up specific firearms to see if they are banned or not, but I thought it was not up any longer. Someone else may be able to help.

Also, if it has a heavy barrel (stamped that or as specified by the manufacturer, then it is exempted by the HBAR exemption.

Not disagreeing with you but why did they administratively ban the Ruger piston AR?

Rab1515 · Oct 27, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
Not disagreeing with you but why did they administratively ban the Ruger piston AR?

Probably because it isn't stamp or labeled as a heavy barrel. Also to make a point to discourage manufactures changing firearms to be legal "No ones getting around our laws easily"

swinokur · Oct 27, 2015

here is the AG opinion of what constitutes a copy of a banned weapon. A piston AR cannot interchange parts with any banned rifle.

therefore legal. my not so legal opinion

redeemed.man · Oct 27, 2015

swinokur said:
here is the AG opinion of what constitutes a copy of a banned weapon. A piston AR cannot interchange parts with any banned rifle.

therefore legal. my not so legal opinion

MSP has specifically stated the Ruger AR is a copy after they were told it is piston based. WTF

swinokur · Oct 27, 2015

The OP asked about LWRC M6ICSPR, which is not banned by MSP.

Bob A · Oct 27, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
MSP has specifically stated the Ruger AR is a copy after they were told it is piston based. WTF

Making up laws on the fly. . . .

"'When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

To take the matter a step farther:

“I am his Highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?”

― Alexander Pope

Apparently MSP is our master. I for one welcome our new overlords.

BigSteve57 · Oct 27, 2015

swinokur said:
here is the AG opinion of what constitutes a copy of a banned weapon. A piston AR cannot interchange parts with any banned rifle.

therefore legal. my not so legal opinion

I hear ya. But my Sig 516 is banned as a "Copy of the Colt AR15" and the SIg 516 is a piston gun. I don't think there are any interchangeable parts. I don't get it.

Pinecone · Oct 28, 2015

At least one piston rifle has been removed from the banned as a copy list by people contacting MSP and pointing this out.

The other ones may also be able to be removed from that list, but it will not happen automatically. Someone needs to contact MSP and point out their error.

They are NOT firearms people. Their first reaction will be, "It looks like an AR, therefore it must BE an AR."

And that list is not law, it is interpretation of the law by MSP.

bkuether · Oct 28, 2015

Legalese usually hurts my head, but I read that brief by the AG. ( :puke2:

)

What struck me was the final conclusion.

For the reasons set forth above, it is our opinion that the
reference to “copies” in PS §5-101(p)(2) does not extend the
regulated firearms law to weapons that bear a mere cosmetic
similarity to a listed weapon.

Clearly, it says that just because it looks like an AR 15 or other "banned" weapons, it is not necessarily a copy. This is good, because otherwise my S&W 15-22 would be banned.

Furthermore....

Rather, in order for a firearm to be
considered a copy of a listed assault weapon, and therefore governed
by the regulated firearms law, there must be a similarity between the
internal components and function of the firearm in question and
those of one of the listed weapons.

Notice it doesn't say "interchangeable". The term butthead used was "similarity between the internal components *and* function".

This may very well be the point that is keeping piston guns on the list. My Stag 8 has some similar internal components. The BCG is, in fact, similar. The short stroke piston, while completely different from a gas tube, could be interpreted as a mechanism that "pushes back" the BCG. And it is the same silver color and similar thickness.... :rolleyes:

Despite the obvious actual mechanism, the function is more or less (I use that very loosely and for argument sake only) the same. Especially to someone at MSP that is not well versed.

IANAL. But after reading it I thought I would throw this in, in order to speak to the piston conundrum. (partially because I own one..)

I don't agree with it, and please do think I am supporting the law or the brief. I am just trying to understand why all pistons wouldn't automatically come off the list.

CharlieFoxtrot · Oct 28, 2015

bkuether said:
Clearly, it says that just because it looks like an AR 15 or other "banned" weapons, it is not necessarily a copy. This is good, because otherwise my S&W 15-22 would be banned.

Your overall point is valid, but the law only applies to centerfire rifles therefore your 15-22 is outside the scope of the statute anyway.

BigSteve57 · Oct 28, 2015

Is there any case that determines how far the word similar can be stretched in this context?

Geez now they've got me doing it.
Next I'll be asking what the meaning of the word "is", is. :sad20:

swinokur · Oct 28, 2015

As long as you "didn't have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky," you're ok.

BigSteve57 · Oct 28, 2015

swinokur said:
As long as you "didn't have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky," you're ok.

At this point I am actually not sure. I guess I need an attorney.

RoadDawg · Nov 4, 2015

BigSteve57 said:
At this point I am actually not sure. I guess I need an attorney.

A picture of the original, attached to a manikin, or otherwise present at the time of the act, does not qualify as a fully functioning copy... I think you will be okay.

:lol:

IANAL

Where in the Law?

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