AGC Guest Changes

dist1646 said:

If person A comes to the range and shoots one box of ammo, then person B (guest) shoots a box of ammo, That is double the wear on the facilities. It ain't rocket science.

How many others have brought a piece of heavy equipment to the range and reworked the impact berms for free? I have.

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Yeah, that makes zero sense.

Stoveman said:

Care to elaborate on how "people are stealing shooting time"?

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Guess poor choice of words , if someone is shootiing there as a guest a lot , apparently they have the numbers AGC that is , I think they should pay something if they are not going to join . Use of the facility with no reparations just don’t seem fair to those who pay. Again stealing wrong choice of words for I always was able to get a lane . Taking advantage of the situation, yes I feel it gets abused by some hence AGC has the numbers . Let them pay the 10 bucks . If someone is shooting there once a week as a guest think there could be some words for that . Using without paying , kinda like taking without paying .This one of the moments wish I would have just kept my mouth shut. Let em pay something .

Virgil Co.C said:

Guess poor choice of words , if someone is shootiing there as a guest a lot , apparently they have the numbers AGC that is , I think they should pay something if they are not going to join . Use of the facility with no reparations just don’t seem fair to those who pay. Again stealing wrong choice of words for I always was able to get a lane . Taking advantage of the situation, yes I feel it gets abused by some hence AGC has the numbers . Let them pay the 10 bucks . If someone is shooting there once a week as a guest think there could be some words for that . Using without paying , kinda like taking without paying .This one of the moments wish I would have just kept my mouth shut. Let em pay something .

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If they are shooting once a week then have them join MSI and buy a range badge.
God knows MSI could use the money.

Virgil Co.C said:

Guess poor choice of words , if someone is shootiing there as a guest a lot , apparently they have the numbers AGC that is , I think they should pay something if they are not going to join . Use of the facility with no reparations just don’t seem fair to those who pay. Again stealing wrong choice of words for I always was able to get a lane . Taking advantage of the situation, yes I feel it gets abused by some hence AGC has the numbers . Let them pay the 10 bucks . If someone is shooting there once a week as a guest think there could be some words for that . Using without paying , kinda like taking without paying .This one of the moments wish I would have just kept my mouth shut. Let em pay something .

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This horse has been beat to death, but that would be a good argument if guests got their own lane...which they don't. No members are prevented from shooting, no more bullets go down range.

Your membership includes the ability to bring a guest; following the rules is not an abuse of the system. AGC has diluted the value of a membership while also increasing fees, and done so without transparency right as people are renewing. The result is less new shooters (anything you tax, you get less of...) in a money grab by the AGC.

Virgil Co.C said:

Guess poor choice of words , if someone is shootiing there as a guest a lot , apparently they have the numbers AGC that is , I think they should pay something if they are not going to join . Use of the facility with no reparations just don’t seem fair to those who pay. Again stealing wrong choice of words for I always was able to get a lane . Taking advantage of the situation, yes I feel it gets abused by some hence AGC has the numbers . Let them pay the 10 bucks . If someone is shooting there once a week as a guest think there could be some words for that . Using without paying , kinda like taking without paying .This one of the moments wish I would have just kept my mouth shut. Let em pay something .

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I am not trying to argue with you. You seem to be friendlier than some of the other guest fee proponents, so I'd like to discuss this (of course trying to sway you to my side...but maybe at least share some understanding).

This is one of the things that both sides are going to go around and around with forever, and I think my side is going to keep reiterating: if the rules are followed, guests can only occupy the ONE shooting lane that the badge holder has paid for with his badge, and only one person can shoot at a time in the lane. If a badge holder brings 1 or 20 guests, they are all still only taking 1 lane for that day. No one (that I have seen) has complained about taking up parking (guests have to park across the stream anyway...heck, I almost always drove my guests) or increased mileage on the bathroom facilities. I haven't seen trash cans overflowing...except maybe after a big club shoot.

There was a flirtation with suggesting that more rounds into the berm create more wear and tear. I don't bring my guests to do mag dumps, and don't have anything belt fed Honestly, when I have guest(s), there are significantly fewer rounds going into the berm from my one lane. If there really is so much berm damage from rounds going into it, I would think a rate of fire limit (very common at other ranges) would be a much more effective way to reduce the number of rounds going in.

It's not that no one is paying. The badge holder paid for that one lane, that one lane used to include guest access (but they are guest of the badge holder...it's not like anyone from the public can show up and say, "Hey, can I shoot with you?"

Other than Aways G rabbingCash not taking advantage of a potential source of revenue, I have yet to see what the damages the place is suffering. What exactly is being "taken," other than maybe education and fond memories?

Also, a lot of our frustration comes from exact words you used: "abused by some." How often to we all (2A folks) feel the sting of having something taken away from us because it was "abused by some."

Pay , join something/ club get a badge , 2 time grace period maybe. Point is someone consistently shooting I don’t know more than 2 times 10 times I don’t know the number should contribute. All said just want a place to shoot.this is the best for me to go for now, I pay they should pay. I have no issues paying for guest or Family. Sounds like a lot politics going on here maybe . I respectfully bow out of this conversation. Just hope the money goes toward positive things for the range

Virgil Co.C said:

Pay , join something/ club get a badge , 2 time grace period maybe. Point is someone consistently shooting I don’t know more than 2 times 10 times I don’t know the number should contribute. All said just want a place to shoot.this is the best for me to go for now, I pay they should pay. I have no issues paying for guest or Family. Sounds like a lot politics going on here maybe . I respectfully bow out of this conversation. Just hope the money goes toward positive things for the range

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That is the million dollar question.

Ya I do see your point , regardless it’s one lane and yes I feel it’s a way of them trying to get memberships/ money. Stuff like this is why I’m an independent. Kinda sucks cause I do see both sides , seems like there trying to be fair about it.whats the saying some of the people some of the time. Guess if I have to pay for a guest I really don’t care , but isn’t like I get to vote on it anyway.

Virgil Co.C said:

Guess poor choice of words , if someone is shootiing there as a guest a lot , apparently they have the numbers AGC that is , I think they should pay something if they are not going to join . Use of the facility with no reparations just don’t seem fair to those who pay. Again stealing wrong choice of words for I always was able to get a lane . Taking advantage of the situation, yes I feel it gets abused by some hence AGC has the numbers . Let them pay the 10 bucks . If someone is shooting there once a week as a guest think there could be some words for that . Using without paying , kinda like taking without paying .This one of the moments wish I would have just kept my mouth shut. Let em pay something .

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Thank you for an honest and civil response.

My biggest gripe with all this is how it was presented. We should all agree that the rule regarding guests wasn't being abused because there was no limit on the amount or frequency of guest passes. That being said if there were people who brought their next door neighbor every time they shot so that said neighbor didn't have to join a club and buy a range badge then I would agree that they were abusing the spirit of the law.

But we don't know that. They have the information on the guests and the member(s) that brought them. They can tell us if the frequent flyer guest shared the same last name and address as the member or not.

In this day and age I'm most certain that there is a way to limit a member bringing the same guest more than X amount of times in a calendar year and if the policy was changed to limit a particular guest (not a spouse or immediate family member) to X visits in a year I would support that. But IMO there is a need, perceived or otherwise, for additional revenue and after five straight years of badge fee increase they felt that the only way that they could generate the additional funds is through this path and foisted a straw man argument upon the membership.

plinkerton said:

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=240591

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AGC clearly has an enthusiastically moderated IP section on here...but couldn't bother to start a thread like this before 12/15/19?

squaregrouper said:

I had a paid guest on Friday. Whether I buy a 2020 range badge is still questionable.

I am no longer a member of BRC and let the club president and trustee know why. What is the point in belonging to a charter club when they vote without member input and then dodge a direct question about how they voted. My MSI membership can get me a range badge, why give BRC money too?

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I use the range from July (ish) to October. This is when the crops are too tall at my farm.

I bring one guest, same one all the time, and we shoot 1 inch targets at 100 yards taking all “well aimed” shots.

Shooting is a diminishing skill if you don’t practice. It’s our responsibility to stay active and accurate. The lives we protect or animals we harvest depend on an accurate shot.

I’m having a hard time justifying the range fee, club fee (same as you mentioned above) now add the new guest fees... full price for the 1/3 of the year I use the range...

This... is the other reason I’ve spun up the invites to my farm.


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Bob A said:

What about applying the "guest" money toward a range badge. After 20 "guest" visits, you're free to get a badge and use your own lane?

That should take care of the two or three "abusers." Once they get a badge, you can go back to treating "guests" as guests.

When I have "guests" visit my house, I always charge them for beverages, snacks and toilet paper, and a small contribution toward utilities, so I sympathise with your issue.

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Priceless.


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Art3 said:

AGC clearly has an enthusiastically moderated IP section on here...but couldn't bother to start a thread like this before 12/15/19?

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I don’t have an IP (internet protocol) question/comment..... am I doing it right?


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Moorvogi said:

I don’t have an IP (internet protocol) question/comment..... am I doing it right?


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IP around these parts usually means "Industry Partner." You might have noticed the moderator of the AGC subforum chastising us "crybaby/complainers," deleting/editing posts, and ultimately locking the thread.

I'm pretty sure his mod powers only exist in that subforum. I'm hoping it is safe to suggest here that he (or anyone else as active with AGC) could have posted a thread warning us about the guest fee months ago, before it was too late to do anything.

Art3 said:

IP around these parts usually means "Industry Partner." You might have noticed the moderator of the AGC subforum chastising us "crybaby/complainers," deleting/editing posts, and ultimately locking the thread.

I'm pretty sure his mod powers only exist in that subforum. I'm hoping it is safe to suggest here that he (or anyone else as active with AGC) could have posted a thread warning us about the guest fee months ago, before it was too late to do anything.

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ahhh. ya. moderators will moderate. that's how you get 100% success stories!

Art3 said:

IP around these parts usually means "Industry Partner." You might have noticed the moderator of the AGC subforum chastising us "crybaby/complainers," deleting/editing posts, and ultimately locking the thread.



I'm pretty sure his mod powers only exist in that subforum. I'm hoping it is safe to suggest here that he (or anyone else as active with AGC) could have posted a thread warning us about the guest fee months ago, before it was too late to do anything.

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Wut?

He locked that thread?

I knew he was young but didn't realize he was a young girl.

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Interesting. I didn't know we had sub forum moderators.

willtill said:

Interesting. I didn't know we had sub forum moderators.

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I think the IP forums are all self-moderated

rseymorejr said:

I think the IP forums are all self-moderated

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Yep, go trash any other IP in their own sub forum and see how that goes.

That thread should have been locked a long time ago.

ericoak said:

Yep, go trash any other IP in their own sub forum and see how that goes.



That thread should have been locked a long time ago.

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There is a difference between a stand alone gun store and a club that many here are members of but I'm sure you knew that.

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