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Old March 31st, 2020, 08:11 PM #41
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Unless you have to meet a power factor all the shooters of PCC I know either use baseline OEM 9mm or they handload a really light load as in 105g @ 1050 FPS or something. Except for guys shooting knockdown steel. Then they use slow moving 147-160g bullets in the 900 FPS range. I use either LAX 147g FMJ reloads, American Eagle 147g FMJ FP or Federsal Syntech 150g polymer FP. All in the 850-900 FPS range. I may reload some slower ones myself. I use them in my Glock pistols also.
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Old March 31st, 2020, 10:33 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdaven View Post
It would certainly be cool to have a Thompson. But, really in my opinion the Grease Gun was a better SMG. They were more accurate than the Thompson due to a slower rate of fire. Cruder, more cheaply made but more practical. I think they drew their design on the German MP40, which I believe was the best SMG of WWII. Had the perfect rate of fire and were very controllable and accurate.

Then, if you wanted an even more rate of fire than a Thompson, the Russian PPSH. 7.62x25 was a neat round. Didint gain the popularity of 9mm or .45. But damn what a round. Although is small caliber for handgun ammunition, especially when 9mm is kindve like the 5.56 of handgun rounds. 7.62x25 was like the FN 5.7 of the day with its armor piercing capabilties.

Of course, I truly believe the MP5 was the best SMG of all time. I dont understand the purpose of the H&K UMP. It does away with the roller delayed blowback to normal blowback with a massive heavy bolt. Its a step back. I was say between the MP5 and the AR/M16/M4 platform are the two most widely used and long standing shoulder-fired platforms of modern times at least in NATO countries.
I've shot a '28 Thompson, a grease gun, a PPSH, and MP5. The PPSH is fun as hell, but only if you have a drum mag. Loved me some '28 Thompson. Enjoyed that too. The MP5 is on a different level of refinement. So much want, so little cash.

Now, I have to ask, how in the world was a grease gun ever in a million years better than a Thompson? It was the most unbalanced and uncontrollable firearm that I've ever had in my paws. Accuracy, huh? I'd take the Thompson any day and twice on Sundays.
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Old March 31st, 2020, 11:41 PM #43
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In relatively modern times , as Undersheriff in rural Wyo , my cousin carried an M1 Thompson in his cruiser ( along with s 12ga, and a Dale Storey Win M94 ) .
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Old April 1st, 2020, 09:10 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowPow View Post
I've shot a '28 Thompson, a grease gun, a PPSH, and MP5. The PPSH is fun as hell, but only if you have a drum mag. Loved me some '28 Thompson. Enjoyed that too. The MP5 is on a different level of refinement. So much want, so little cash.

Now, I have to ask, how in the world was a grease gun ever in a million years better than a Thompson? It was the most unbalanced and uncontrollable firearm that I've ever had in my paws. Accuracy, huh? I'd take the Thompson any day and twice on Sundays.
Grease Gun has a slower rate of fire than a Thompson. Thompson is more refined hands down. But was more expensive to produce and heavier and without trigger control puts less rounds on target. Ive seen somebody shoot a Thompson pretty accurately by squeezing off 3-4 shot bursts.
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Old April 1st, 2020, 04:21 PM #45
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Even though our clinic is still open, not doing any elective surgeries has given me a large amount of free time. Over the years I have accumulated a mix of 9 mm bullets and brass, I haven’t started reloading 9 mm yet. I just completed 2K+ rounds of 40 for my 2011.

So, what I have is about 1000 115 gr Xtreme plated bullets, 1000 CMJ FMJ bullets, 500 147 gr Xtreme, a few hundred 148 gr coated bullets from TomKat, and some SNS lead bullets. Powders I have are Power Pistol, AA#5, and Reloader 7.

I want to load some for both my 16in AR9 and I have a 10 in SBR AR9.

With all of the ranges closed and living in the middle of a neighborhood with houses too close to each other...I want to run a few batches but can’t really test them.

After doing a bunch of internet searches, I am debating running a batch of the 115 gr Xtremes over 4.8 gr of Power Pistol. What do you guys think?
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Old April 1st, 2020, 06:12 PM #46
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mexican bob, I wasn't pissed. don't worry. I simply think the tommy guns are overcomplicated boat anchors. And I am not quarantined either. I am stuck with one of those essential jobs where I don't get a choice. I do admit I considered smoking a couple of Kools and coughing my butt off just to get a week off but I think the boss got wise when another guy tried faking sneezing violently, but only when he (the boss) was around.

The greaser is interesting but I can't say I like it. Crude and uncomfortable to shoot. Once upon a time, there was one in inventory that had an integral suppressor. Very old tech, consumable internals, but pretty quiet. PPSH 41 is a sweet gun when it works. Relatively comfortable to shoot, fast, and controllable. The downshot is most of the ammo is corrosive and with the shouldered case design the chamber is a pain to clean. You tend to replace barrels regularly due to the nasty ammo. Drive out the big pin under the bbl and then, using a brass fixture, drive the barrel backward out of the trunnion. The PPSH 43 is a turd, however. For my money, though, if I were to go east block for subguns, I would go straight up Czech.

And GunBum is correct that the tommy gun wasn't the first pistol caliber automatic that fired from the shoulder. I perhaps misspoke when I called it the first real subgun. I use that designation as it was the first weapon to be called a submachine gun (by Thompson) and represents one of three weapons developed around the same time of similar concept. Technically the first guns to fire pistol cal from shoulder in full auto were converted semi automatic pistols (the krauts and austrians) like the m1912 and c96 (broomhandle). The european development arc surrounded conversion of handguns to full auto fire or what we would call PCCs to full auto fire (all, to my knowledge, started as semi designs or were morphed from other weapons, like the italians). I believe the tommy guns, beginning with the first real salable models as the m1919 and m1921 (with subvariants for various contracts), to be the first purpose designed/built full auto shoulder fired systems to run pistol ammo. I may be missing something, though.
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Old April 1st, 2020, 06:25 PM #47
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I get what you're saying. The Thompson is just such an icon when it comes to firearms...its silhouette is recognizable world-wide...much like the Colt Single-Action Army and 1911. I know someone who was able to carry a Thompson M1A1 in Vietnam and literally bet his life on it. He said within 50 yards that it was more effective than a M16. He also used to own a number of Thompsons but they were all too good condition to shoot so he sold them and replaced them with Thompsons he wasn't concerned about shooting as they showed enough wear.

I think anyone who grew up watching Combat with Sgt. Saunders has a good feeling about the Thompson...the movie "Uncommon Valor" also used them to good effect. It may be television and the movies but for better or worse memories were created. I've shot a Thompson and loved every minute of it. I own a semi-auto Thompson...haven't shot it for probably thirty years...it's a fun gun to shoot but certainly not practical.
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Old April 1st, 2020, 09:55 PM #48
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Don't get me wrong, if the choice was between a real M1 or M1A1 tommy gun and a semi auto PCC, I am probably opting for the tommy gun. I suspect that many that espouse attachment to the tommy gun, especially the LEO and "gangster" variants, have little or no experience actually using one, even on a range. I would trust the M1A1 most but it is still cantankerous and darn heavy. Perhaps it is a matter of each person viewing the world through the lens of their own experience; I am very attached to the MP5 (and several other HK/Portuguese/Spanish roller delayed weapons. I know they have their own peculiarities but I am familiar with them, can do my own service work and part replacement, and know how to keep them running under less than ideal conditions. I will use a Colt SMG if an MP5 is not available but I still prefer the Kraut weapon.

On the subject of iconography, I will agree that the Colt Frontier/Single Action Army was one of the most recognizable (and a very durable) handgun of its day. The 1911 is also known/cloned/carried worldwide. I never owned a real Colt SAA but I have owned a clone or two. I never devoted the time to achieve real skill with it as when I tried an Italian semi-clone of the S&W No. 3 Schofield I realized the advantages it held. The Colt can undoubtedly handle higher pressure ammo (but at the time, ammo was all black powder so that is an anacrhonistic argument) and is probably more durable in an environment where abusive treatment and no spare parts are the rule. The No.3 could double the rate of fire I achieved with the Colt copies with no special effort or practice. The 1911, well, I do admit to owning a couple and still liking them. The biggest argument in favor of the 1911 that I have found from a practical standpoint is aftermarket/holster/mag/kit support. I don't really consider .45 ACP or 9x19mm to be inherently great fighting rounds and, after examining the aggregated data from Marshall & Sanow, among others, it seems to matter much more what projectile design you select than whether it is .355 or .451 (of course it still has to go in the right place). The argument for subguns is the ease of delivering these lower powered projectiles with greater accuracy and in larger numbers (full auto fire) within a given time constraint. Unless your target is wearing ballistic protection, a modern subgun firing modern ammunition of appropriate construction is still a valid choice for closer range social work.
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Old April 2nd, 2020, 05:22 AM #49
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After doing a bunch of internet searches, I am debating running a batch of the 115 gr Xtremes over 4.8 gr of Power Pistol. What do you guys think?
Hey, Doc, I'm thinking that load may not cycle the action on your PCCs, based on load data I've seen.
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Old April 2nd, 2020, 07:06 AM #50
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Hey, Doc, I'm thinking that load may not cycle the action on your PCCs, based on load data I've seen.
Thanks,
I normally like to do a ladder of 5-10 rounds at each load and chrono them.
With all the ranges near me closed and too much time on my hands, I wanted to create a stockpile of reloads.
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