current ATF wait time

rockstarr · Jul 23, 2019

fidelity said:
Maybe this is discussed upthread (and it's such a monster thread, that I'm not going to try to wade through the length of it), but is the current administration aware or sympathetic to this delay (throwing this out there for anyone)? It's a potentially easy way to make their gun owning constituency happy.

Everytime I see a deal for a suppressor, I end up suppressing the urge myself because of all the waiting vs going for instant gratification (e.g. a gun). I can't be the only one - meaning the antigunners might decrease gun sales if they also supported expediting this process.

I was the same way the past several years myself. once you get started on the path, with getting a trust set up or get your first batch of prints/photos started, the journey is half complete.

after you pay for your first stamp, some of the animosity goes away and you just accept it when paying for your second stamp

My advice would be to get started on a suppressor now, the longer you wait, the more you'll want one and kick yourself for not starting the process earlier.

alucard0822 · Jul 23, 2019

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Due to a series of mix-ups by ATF, USPS, and my dealer, the Optimus ended up being the first can I bought and one of the last (maybe the last?) can I got ahold of. Regardless, I'm really happy with it. I know everyone says buy purpose built cans instead of modular ones, but I sure seem to end up using the Optimus A LOT. I just think it sounds good. The level of modularity far exceeds any other can I am aware of. Accessories are kind of expensive but generally pretty useful.

Anyway I think you'll be happy with it.

Really looking forward to it. Already collected most of the accessories and muzzle devices on the stuff I plan to use it with, 3 lug, small blast shield(for mid config) and fixed barrel adapters. Figure I can run it on most AR rifles and pistols, 22, 5.56, 9mm, 300BO and 308, then try it on a couple 9mm handguns and other platforms to see how I like it, and maybe go for lighter or better performing cans down for something down the road. I do want a 22 can, but seems they aren't supporting the checkmate anymore, and pushing the small, but really heavy(for a 22 can) Optimus micro, although cool that that can can be used on 5.56 cal stuff, and can use the same muzzle adapters as the larger Optimus can. Just not sold on an 8oz+ can that will be predominately on 22s.

fidelity · Jul 23, 2019

rockstarr said:
I was the same way the past several years myself. once you get started on the path, with getting a trust set up or get your first batch of prints/photos started, the journey is half complete.

after you pay for your first stamp, some of the animosity goes away and you just accept it when paying for your second stamp

My advice would be to get started on a suppressor now, the longer you wait, the more you'll want one and kick yourself for not starting the process earlier.

I'll see if there's a 22 suppressor that catches my fancy, as it would be neat to put on the Tikka T1x or CZ 455 Varmint that I have in 22LR which both have threaded barrels. This might motivate me, lol ...

Speed3 · Jul 23, 2019

fidelity said:
I'll see if there's a 22 suppressor that catches my fancy, as it would be neat to put on the Tikka T1x or CZ 455 Varmint that I have in 22LR which both have threaded barrels. This might motivate me, lol ...

You wont be disappointed with a 22 suppressor. Makes me smile every time I pull it out of the safe.

Some have a more of a "first round pop" that others, if that is important to you research carefully.

woodline · Jul 23, 2019

alucard0822 said:
Really looking forward to it. Already collected most of the accessories and muzzle devices on the stuff I plan to use it with, 3 lug, small blast shield(for mid config) and fixed barrel adapters. Figure I can run it on most AR rifles and pistols, 22, 5.56, 9mm, 300BO and 308, then try it on a couple 9mm handguns and other platforms to see how I like it, and maybe go for lighter or better performing cans down for something down the road. I do want a 22 can, but seems they aren't supporting the checkmate anymore, and pushing the small, but really heavy(for a 22 can) Optimus micro, although cool that that can can be used on 5.56 cal stuff, and can use the same muzzle adapters as the larger Optimus can. Just not sold on an 8oz+ can that will be predominately on 22s.

Agree completely on your thoughts on the Optimus Micro for a .22 can. I own a Surefire Ryder S and a Mac Bros Vapor for .22lr suppressors. I think they both sound great. The Ryder S indexes off muzzle face to avoid dealing with shoulder or thread length issues one occasionally runs into, and the Vapor is just a nice sounding can that I got for cheap.

I would buy an Optimus Micro for it's 5.56 capabilities if I needed a light can for that, but not .22lr. People seem to really like the Dead Air Mask and Rugged Oculus, but I don't see a need for a third or fourth .22 can at this point. Next can I'll probably buy is a YHM Turbo K, followed by some kind of dedicated 9mm suppressor. Probably a Rugged Obsidian or whatever their 9mm can is called. Price seems right on that one.

F8L_Funnel · Jul 23, 2019

Does using a Trust still make the wait time less? If so, is it still just a few months vs. a year wait for an individual?

woodline · Jul 24, 2019

F8L_Funnel said:
Does using a Trust still make the wait time less? If so, is it still just a few months vs. a year wait for an individual?

No. Depending on how many responsible parties are on the trust, it can make the wait longer. I don't have anything pending, so I'm not tracking trends at the moment. NFATracker should have a solid trend line to follow. IF ATF actually gets the eForm4 process up and running again, that should cut wait times down for everyone. I'm not holding my breath on that getting up and running anytime soon though. Seems like 33 days of shutdown backed up NFA branch for several extra months, so I am sure it conveniently set their eForm4 dev process back by approximately a billion years.

daNattyFatty · Jul 24, 2019

According to the Stamp Megathread on reddit, they’re processing anywhere from mid August to late September 2018 on Form 4s right now.

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lazarus · Jul 24, 2019

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Agree completely on your thoughts on the Optimus Micro for a .22 can. I own a Surefire Ryder S and a Mac Bros Vapor for .22lr suppressors. I think they both sound great. The Ryder S indexes off muzzle face to avoid dealing with shoulder or thread length issues one occasionally runs into, and the Vapor is just a nice sounding can that I got for cheap.

I would buy an Optimus Micro for it's 5.56 capabilities if I needed a light can for that, but not .22lr. People seem to really like the Dead Air Mask and Rugged Oculus, but I don't see a need for a third or fourth .22 can at this point. Next can I'll probably buy is a YHM Turbo K, followed by some kind of dedicated 9mm suppressor. Probably a Rugged Obsidian or whatever their 9mm can is called. Price seems right on that one.

For your Ryder-22, thoughts beyond you like it? How well does the indexing off the muzzle face work (as in well, badly?) and does it leave a bunch of threads exposed.

I was looking at one today, or it might have been the mini Ryder-22 (I think it was a mini). Really thinking about it strongly at this point for my first can. Small, light, it felt well built. Price seemed right. Not too worried about Surefire drying up and disappearing tomorrow.

woodline · Jul 25, 2019

lazarus said:
For your Ryder-22, thoughts beyond you like it? How well does the indexing off the muzzle face work (as in well, badly?) and does it leave a bunch of threads exposed.

I was looking at one today, or it might have been the mini Ryder-22 (I think it was a mini). Really thinking about it strongly at this point for my first can. Small, light, it felt well built. Price seemed right. Not too worried about Surefire drying up and disappearing tomorrow.

Ryder-22s sounds great on every .22lr host I've used. I haven't had any issues with the method of indexing so far. It does not leave threads exposed as long as the thread length is the standard-ish 1/2x28 @ .400" length and not the less standard but still prevalent 1/2x28 @.600" length that causes people to use spacers (I think this is common on .22lr ARs). In fact, Surefire includes a spacer for you to use if the exposed threads bother you. Their included assembly/disassembly tools are appreciated as well, in case you end up with a dirty can that does not want to come apart.

The .22lr suppressor field is crowded with great options. I think it is hard to make a bad choice as long as you are going with a reputable brand. Having a .22 silencer that indexes off the muzzle face seems like good insurance to me, but maybe it's a gimmick. That and the Mac Bros Vapor both sound great. There's maybe quieter cans out there but decibel chasing is exhausting. .22lr should be fun, not exhausting. Find one that has the features you like at a price you can live with and go enjoy it within the constraints of its design.

lazarus · Jul 25, 2019

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Ryder-22s sounds great on every .22lr host I've used. I haven't had any issues with the method of indexing so far. It does not leave threads exposed as long as the thread length is the standard-ish 1/2x28 @ .400" length and not the less standard but still prevalent 1/2x28 @.600" length that causes people to use spacers (I think this is common on .22lr ARs). In fact, Surefire includes a spacer for you to use if the exposed threads bother you. Their included assembly/disassembly tools are appreciated as well, in case you end up with a dirty can that does not want to come apart.

The .22lr suppressor field is crowded with great options. I think it is hard to make a bad choice as long as you are going with a reputable brand. Having a .22 silencer that indexes off the muzzle face seems like good insurance to me, but maybe it's a gimmick. That and the Mac Bros Vapor both sound great. There's maybe quieter cans out there but decibel chasing is exhausting. .22lr should be fun, not exhausting. Find one that has the features you like at a price you can live with and go enjoy it within the constraints of its design.

Thanks! Yeah, I suspect I will never have the money, the time or a patient enough spouse to chase the best can or have multiple cans for multiple seasons. Or whatever.

My aspirational goal is a rimfire suppressor, a .45 suppressor, a .223 suppressor, a .30 cal suppressor and a .338 or .50 suppressor (not .50BMG, something that'll work with .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, etc.).

Realistic I think is a rimfire, .45 and .30 cal cans. Maybe a dedicated .223 can (Griffin micro looks very, very nice). Honestly, I am not even chasing "hearing safe" for every caliber. I am chasing quieter. If a .223 can doesn't make it hearing safe, okay. I am not in a position to have a personal range where I can shoot a bunch without hearing protection. I would like subsonic loads in whatever platform to be hearing safe. That is about it. If I am hunting with my 6.5 Grendel AR and I need to fire off a couple of shots and they are 145 and then 141dB, okay. That is sure quieter than the probably 160dB it is pumping out now and a heck of a lot less hearing damage.

Now if I am popping .22lr subs from a rifle, I'd expect and hope that the volume is well under 120dB. Something like 300BO subs I'd hope to at least be in the ballpark of 120dB.

Thanks for the info and I'll try to relax a little about it. The long wait, cost of a tax stamp and a wife that isn't happy, happy, joy, joy about guns makes me kind of anxious on figuring out "the right" suppressor.

alucard0822 · Jul 25, 2019

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Agree completely on your thoughts on the Optimus Micro for a .22 can. I own a Surefire Ryder S and a Mac Bros Vapor for .22lr suppressors. I think they both sound great. The Ryder S indexes off muzzle face to avoid dealing with shoulder or thread length issues one occasionally runs into, and the Vapor is just a nice sounding can that I got for cheap.

I would buy an Optimus Micro for it's 5.56 capabilities if I needed a light can for that, but not .22lr. People seem to really like the Dead Air Mask and Rugged Oculus, but I don't see a need for a third or fourth .22 can at this point. Next can I'll probably buy is a YHM Turbo K, followed by some kind of dedicated 9mm suppressor. Probably a Rugged Obsidian or whatever their 9mm can is called. Price seems right on that one.

I do like a versatile can, provided there isn't a tradeoff in undesireable things like weight for some feature I don't need. Have been looking really closely at the SiCo switchback and AAC Halcyon for a lightweight modular can that can be configured a couple ways, the switchback supposedly is quieter than a dryfire in rifle config, or can bring a pistol or rifle to "hearing safe" with a small couple ounce minimalist config. The Optimus micro would be awesome as a tiny 5.56 can for ARs, but not sure if I want to trade the 8.5oz weight for that ability, although compared to popular 6-7 oz rimfire cans, an extra ounce might be worth it. Then there are cans like the GM22 at 2.5oz would be great on 22cal handguns compared to the heavier stuff, but it's monocore and limited, although if I don't need other configs or calibers might just be the way to go.

lazarus · Jul 26, 2019

IMHO is someone made a .223 capable can, user serviceable and modular in length. Something like a 5-6oz short and 8-10oz long. Use it in short for rimfire or limited sound reduction for 5.55 and in long for 5.56 or maximum suppression.

alucard0822 · Jul 26, 2019

lazarus said:
IMHO is someone made a .223 capable can, user serviceable and modular in length. Something like a 5-6oz short and 8-10oz long. Use it in short for rimfire or limited sound reduction for 5.55 and in long for 5.56 or maximum suppression.

There really isn't one that does both, but the Optimus micro and switchback are probably the best/closest out now.

The Optimus micro can handle 5.56 down to 12.5 with a taper mount adapter, or a 24" 22-250, no barrel or FA restrictions on 5.7 or rimfire, and it's relatively small at 5 3/8" x 1", but it's 8.1oz without ANY adapter, add a direct thread for 9.3oz, taper or 3 lug adapters add up to 1.5" and 10.9oz + muzzle device, light for a 5.56 can, but near double the weight of most rimfire cans. I was interested at first, but the weight is almost a dealbreaker, the inability to use it on a 10.5" barrel, where a tiny 5.56 can would really shine seems it is very limited in both applications instead of offering the best of each.

The switchback is a Ti rimfire/5.7 can rated for FA, seems FAR better for rimfire, can configure from a 2.5" 3.2oz minimalist can that would keep a 22 rifle hearing safe, and a pistol around 142dB, 3.5" 4.3oz mid size that is hearing safe for both, or a 6.5oz 5.75" full length can that supposedly can quiet a rifle down to 108dB, supposedly the best on the market. I'm thinking this is the way to go, can choose length vs performance with a relatively compact and lightweight can, and supposedly the best suppression around on a 22LR rifle.

woodline · Jul 26, 2019

I think the issue one tends to run into with a can that can work for both 5.56 and .22lr is that certain designs work better for high pressure rounds, and certain baffle designs work better for low pressure rounds. But hopefully something will eventually be produced that does both well. With the suppressor industry semi-taking off, more money than in the past is being put into R&D. Sure probably 90% of what they say is going into R&D is actually going into marketing, but whatever. Still better than it used to be.

lazarus · Jul 26, 2019

fbi_surveillance_van said:
I think the issue one tends to run into with a can that can work for both 5.56 and .22lr is that certain designs work better for high pressure rounds, and certain baffle designs work better for low pressure rounds. But hopefully something will eventually be produced that does both well. With the suppressor industry semi-taking off, more money than in the past is being put into R&D. Sure probably 90% of what they say is going into R&D is actually going into marketing, but whatever. Still better than it used to be.

That’s also maybe a better split than the pharmaceutical industry :-)

Hey, if someone manages to make a much better suppressor some day I am not against buying it. Just have a long way to go starting at zero.

Eyeing up the TacSol Aries. I know a smaller volume can is going to be literally volume limited. But is it maybe worth while to consider? I want small and light. I like that it is titanium and SS so short of intentional abuse (or a battle strike) it seems like it would last a life time.

The one video (SS website) or test I can find puts a pistol with “42gr 22lr” at barely hearing safe on a pistol (mid 130s at the war down from mid 150s) and mid one teens on a 16” 10/22 using 42gr subsonic ammo.

So it sounds (pardon the pun) like you’d be sacrificing maybe 5-8dB compared to one of the 5-7” rimfire cans. I’d probably be using this on a rifle pretty exclusively.

I am also considering a Q El Camino. I am really trying to keep the total damage to under $500 if I can. Or at least close.

Going by South Carroll tomorrow. I am happy to have my opinion changed.

daNattyFatty · Jul 30, 2019

So I had been debating back and forth about calling the ATF to check the status. Today I did and am happy!

2 Form 4s approved 7/17/19. 313 day wait. Now for my FFL to call.....

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erwos · Jul 30, 2019

Hot take on 22lr cans: if you're going to put it on a rifle, weight is irrelevant, and steel is the way to go from a cost/durability perspective. If you're putting it on a pistol, you should strongly consider aluminum or titanium. I know some people hate on aluminum 22lr cans, but they're so much more pleasant on those light 22lr pistols.

lazarus · Jul 31, 2019

Going to go order my first suppressor today. AAC Element 2 if SS still has them in stock at lunch time. Q El Camino if they don’t is my plan.

blksniper2000 · Aug 1, 2019

yhm phantom 30cal

form 4 trust pending oct 25 2018

still waiting

I figure another month or two

current ATF wait time

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