M2 Ball in an M1 Garand

ras_oscar · Jul 6, 2018

Just took delivery of a brand new 1952 M1 Garand in 30-06. Also picked up enough M2 ball chow to feed it until I generate a bag-o-brass.

Looking over what I have in powder and projectiles for .30 cal, it looks like Varget and 149 grain projectile. Looking at the Lee manual, the Varget start load for 30-06 generates the M2 muzzle velocity to within 1-2 fps. If it also cycles the action life is good. However, if for some reason the combination does not work, I hesitate to increase the charge beyond the M2 ball spec. Should I seek a slower powder? A powder that has the target velocity at the never exceed charge? Something else?

Red1917 · Jul 6, 2018

I *think* varget is generally considered safe in m1s and I know a few people that use it, I personally use imr4895 or 4064 and worked both up from the Sierra manual with 150 grain bullets until I had 100% function and didn’t see a reason to go much over that

Major03 · Jul 6, 2018

46.5 gr of Varget and a 168 gr SMK is a great combo for an M1 Garand. As always...work up your own load disclaimers apply.

dist1646 · Jul 6, 2018

The Hornady service rifle load data lists M1 Garand, 30-06 Springfield:

150-155grain bullets using Varget starting at 42.4gr - 46.1gr. 46.1gr is listed as maximum with velocity listed as 2600fps.

168grain bullet w/ Varget starting at 42.7gr - 46.8gr max. 46.8gr is listed as maximum with velocity listed as 2600 fps.

Personally, I think those starting loads are a bit light, more in the .308 range. Generally, 45-46 gr =/- is where Garands live.
My personal load is 46.5gr IMR 4895 with a 155gr Sierra ( Sierra # 2155). This load has taken the spotting disc out multiple times @ 200yds for me during matches. This load has preformed exceptionally well in multiple Garands

spoon059 · Jul 6, 2018

Go to the CMP forums and get some advice there. Lots of very specific info about how and why to reload. You just need to make sure you don't bend your op rod.

M1 is such a fun rifle to shoot! I love mine.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Topher · Jul 6, 2018

IMR 4895 is very close to the original powder that was use by my research.
IRM 4895 is temperature sensitive so... It shoots different in cold vs. hot weather.
H4895 is the same formulations as IMR but NOT temperature sensitive.

I use H4895 with 150 grain bullets from Hornady.
They work wonderfully.

Beware of heavy bullets... do not go over 168 grain. There are stories of bent op rods.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Jul 6, 2018

Soldiers very often used 172 grain armor piercing ammo in the M1 rifles during the war. I guess they were loaded to the proper pressures so there was no danger to the rifles.

I use 168 grain match ammunition in my .308 M1 built to match specs with a match op-rod.

Doco Overboard · Jul 6, 2018

I use 178's with 4895 in one of my rifles to shoot the other side of the field when hunting. They work good for deer if they're not right in front of you.

Blacksmith101 · Jul 6, 2018

Some reference

Reloading for the M1 Garand American Rifleman 1986
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByRsUFulRXSUODYwODA1Y2EtYzc3Yi00NDZiLTgyMTAtZjFiYTU1ZWQyY2I3/view

Shooting Cast in the Ought Six
http://www.hensleygibbs.com/casting/oughtsixcast.htm

Shooting M1 Garand with 30-06 & 308 Cast Bullets
http://www.hensleygibbs.com/casting/m1garandcast.htm

Rockzilla · Jul 6, 2018

Got a few FA match and some LC match laying around..here and there
and shoot the M2 stuff through the issue Garand shoots decent..
For reloads I use IMR-4895 powder, CCI-200 primers,depending on which
rifles Bergers 155gr.Hybrid Target, 168gr. Hybrid Target, in the NM Garand.
Sierra 150gr. FMJ or Hornady, Sierra 155gr. HPBT in the issue Garands
These are loaded in LC-68 demil brass obtained years ago...
The Garand is a fun rifle to shoot and reload for..

-Rock

byf43 · Jul 7, 2018

H-4895
W-748

I've used both with very good accuracy, in my M1 Garand.
LC and/or Winchester brass works well.

ras_oscar · Jul 7, 2018

dist1646 said:
The Hornady service rifle load data lists M1 Garand, 30-06 Springfield:

150-155grain bullets using Varget starting at 42.4gr - 46.1gr. 46.1gr is listed as maximum with velocity listed as 2600fps.

The Lee manual, Second edition, lists 30-06 loads for H-Varget and a 150 grain bullet as follows:

Start: 47 gr 2808 fps

Never exceed:51gr 2975 fps

I was shooting for M2 ball specification, of 2805 FPS, which is listed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield

as follows:

An emergency order was made to manufacture quantities of ammunition that matched the external ballistics of the earlier M1906 cartridge as soon as possible. A new cartridge was developed in 1938 that was essentially a duplicate of the old M1906 round, but loaded with IMR 4895 propellant and a new flat-based bullet that had a gilding metal jacket and a different lead alloy, and weighed 152 grains (9.8 g) instead of 150 grains (9.7 g).

This 1938 pattern cartridge, the cartridge, caliber .30, ball, M2, achieved a muzzle velocity of 2,805 ft/s (855 m/s) and muzzle energy of 2,656 ft⋅lbf (3,601 J).[15] The round weighed 416 grains (27.0 g) and its maximum range was approximately 3,450 yd (3,150 m).[16][17]

Blacksmith101 · Jul 7, 2018

More reference

Hatcher's Notebook Chapter III "A Brief History of the .30-06, the .30 M1 and the .30 M2 Cartridges" starts on page 19.
https://archive.org/stream/Hatchers_Notebook#page/n27/mode/2up

dist1646 · Jul 7, 2018

ras_oscar said:
The Lee manual, Second edition, lists 30-06 loads for H-Varget and a 150 grain bullet as follows:

Start: 47 gr 2808 fps

Never exceed:51gr 2975 fps

I was shooting for M2 ball specification, of 2805 FPS, which is listed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield

as follows:

An emergency order was made to manufacture quantities of ammunition that matched the external ballistics of the earlier M1906 cartridge as soon as possible. A new cartridge was developed in 1938 that was essentially a duplicate of the old M1906 round, but loaded with IMR 4895 propellant and a new flat-based bullet that had a gilding metal jacket and a different lead alloy, and weighed 152 grains (9.8 g) instead of 150 grains (9.7 g).

This 1938 pattern cartridge, the cartridge, caliber .30, ball, M2, achieved a muzzle velocity of 2,805 ft/s (855 m/s) and muzzle energy of 2,656 ft⋅lbf (3,601 J).[15] The round weighed 416 grains (27.0 g) and its maximum range was approximately 3,450 yd (3,150 m).[16][17]

I am sure the Lee manual does not list service rifle loads for the Garand. What they are almost certainly listing is load data for modern bolt actions. Does the Lee manual state what type of firearm they ran their tests through to obtain those loads? The Hornady manual does and the data I posted from Hornady was tested in an M1 Garand. Lee's starting load shows a higher velocity than gov't spec. for M2 ball from the muzzle. Therefore, I would consider Lee's starting load to be max. for an M1 Garand. The potential for increased wear or even damage to the rifle is something to be avoided. Parts are scarce and getting more expensive every day.

Bear in mind that M72 match ammo for the Garand specs at 2640fps with a 173 gr bullet.

dist1646 · Jul 7, 2018

Check out Target Sports USA for ammo.
They also have ammo listed on GunBroker:
Item number 778735245

This is PPU 150gr. ball for the M1 Garand.

Pinecone · Jul 7, 2018

Topher said:
IMR 4895 is very close to the original powder that was use by my research.
IRM 4895 is temperature sensitive so... It shoots different in cold vs. hot weather.
H4895 is the same formulations as IMR but NOT temperature sensitive.

Modern H4895 is still temp sensitive, but less so than IMR.

H4895 is formulated to match old IMR 4895.

Hodgdon started buying escess surplus power and packaging it for reloaders.
When military IMR 4895 ran out, he needed a replacement, but the fresh IMR 4895 was not the same as the surplus stuff. So he had H4895 made to match the surplus stuff he had been selling.

ras_oscar · Jul 8, 2018

dist1646 said:
Bear in mind that M72 match ammo for the Garand specs at 2640fps with a 173 gr bullet.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I have the Hornady manual which indeed does list the M1 Grand and Varget. I'll start there.

Doco Overboard · Jul 8, 2018

View attachment united_states_army_tm_43-0001-27 - 29_april_1994.pdf Good info in here hope the attachment works for you.

ras_oscar · Jul 9, 2018

Doco Overboard said:
View attachment 236979 Good info in here hope the attachment works for you.

And I spent 2 hours of my life over the weekend looking for this without success. Thanks. :party29:

It's interesting that they measure velocity at 78 feet, while all the reloading recipes measure it at the muzzle. I guess instrumentation has improved in the last few decades.

ras_oscar · Jul 10, 2018

I will risk sounding like a newb, and in the interest of maintaining abundant caution; When I select a projectile to reload handgun cartridges, I select a projectile based on the cartridge I plan to reload. 9MM luger, 44 magnum, 45 ACP. Unlike those projectiles, when I go to select a projectile for 308 or 30-06, I go to 30 cal. Please confirm the same projectile is/ can be used for both cartridges.

M2 Ball in an M1 Garand

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