Grandfathering for Bump Stocks or Binary Triggers

eruby · May 26, 2018

May have been posted elsewhere, but MSP sent an email saying you could keep your pre-10/1/018 trigger device if you applied to the ATF, and then after 10/1/2019 if you got ATF approval.

Then the email said ATF told MSP they (ATF) cannot give approval and any 'applications' ATF gets basically don't exist. THEN in the MSP basically said 'go get your F'ing shinebox to those who own devices.

:sad20:

JohnnyE · May 26, 2018

ironpony said:
Are the Feds to blame for any part of that? Well actually like applying for an HQL to the atf, they probably don't gaf about the hql or MD.

Feds are not to blame for failing to provide the approval the MGA wants them to provide.

The BATFE gets its marching orders from the Congress and White House, not from any of the 50 state or ~3,300 county governments, or the countless township, borough, city, village or town governments across the nation.

ironpony · May 26, 2018

JohnnyE said:
Feds are not to blame for failing to provide the approval the MGA wants them to provide.

The BATFE gets its marching orders from the Congress and White House, not from any of the 50 state or ~3,300 county governments, or the countless township, borough, city, village or town governments across the nation.

No offense but how does one explain the no SBR <29” for MD only. ATF won’t approve the stamp for MD’ers

Muleskinner · May 26, 2018

According to scuttelbutt floating around on some facebook pages there appears to be an openly defiant protest WITH bumpstocks on Oct 2 in the works daring MSP to come and them. According to some they have sent registered letters to the ATF knowing that they can do nothing and apparently those letters are being returned to sender. It seems to me that if the a portion of the law as written cannot be complied with (having ATF grant permission to keep the device the entire law is flawed and should be repealed...I know they will just write it again with no possibility for grandfathering at all but that's not really the point..

I know that those of you who feel this is a dumb idea will complain...i'm just passing on the info...

ironpony · May 26, 2018

Now I am curious, how did the small borough of MD, as Johnny mentions, get the ATF to not allow SBR stamps for rifles under 29" OAL ?? I remember some slipping through the cracks and getting "approval" and then the wait for everyone as ATF had to figure out MD laws ! If the atf can do that against the 2A for a small state then why not this for MD citizens?
FOIA request haha

JohnnyE · May 26, 2018

ironpony said:
No offense but how does one explain the no SBR <29” for MD only. ATF won’t approve the stamp for MD’ers

ironpony said:
Now I am curious, how did the small borough of MD, as Johnny mentions, get the ATF to not allow SBR stamps for rifles under 29" OAL ?? I remember some slipping through the cracks and getting "approval" and then the wait for everyone as ATF had to figure out MD laws ! If the atf can do that against the 2A for a small state then why not this for MD citizens?
FOIA request haha

I am not familiar with the "...no SBR <29” for MD only" issue other than, if it is similar to the no NFA for Illinois law (Illinois law prohibits machine guns in Illinois), then I would say that BATFE will not approve something for a resident of a state if it is illegal in that state. That is different than a state (oh, like Maryland) requiring BATFE to do something (like approve binary triggers for Maryland serfs like us) which is something that don't do for any other state. In fact, I would go so far as to PRESUME that BATFE is, somewhere in federal law, prohibited from approving form 4's in states where MG's are prohibited.

swinokur · May 26, 2018

SBR’s fall under the NFA.

Binary triggers do not

ironpony · May 26, 2018

My bad.

I was thinking these were being considered into the likes of Machine guns. Whole new animals unrelated to and not considered similar to mgs then, just a thought.

JohnnyE · May 26, 2018

swinokur said:
SBR’s fall under the NFA.

Binary triggers do not

Thanks. I was slow on the uptake. I need a rate increasing device between my ears!

lee2 · May 26, 2018

https://content.govdelivery.com/att...D-FRU-18-001+Rapid+Fire+Trigger+Activator.pdf

Maryland State Police

Licensing Division

ADVISORY

LD-FRU-18-001

May 25, 2018

"Rapid Fire Trigger Activator"

Please review the attached document for up to date information.

ironpony · May 26, 2018

Too late, just ran everything through the bandsaw.

jkeys · May 26, 2018

lee2 said:
https://content.govdelivery.com/att...D-FRU-18-001+Rapid+Fire+Trigger+Activator.pdf

Maryland State Police

Licensing Division

ADVISORY

LD-FRU-18-001

May 25, 2018

"Rapid Fire Trigger Activator"

Please review the attached document for up to date information.

Did anybody else notice the legal catch 22 here?

You can keep your device between October 2018 and Oct 2019 if you apply to the ATF, but not past that unless you receive approval. But if you fail to receive ATF approval during that time period it is illegal to sell your device... So you are stuck with something unlawful to posses since MD is criminalizing interstate commerce.

Hawkeye · May 26, 2018

lee2 said:
https://content.govdelivery.com/att...D-FRU-18-001+Rapid+Fire+Trigger+Activator.pdf

Maryland State Police

Licensing Division

ADVISORY

LD-FRU-18-001

May 25, 2018

"Rapid Fire Trigger Activator"

Please review the attached document for up to date information.

That is literally the same document we've been discussing for the past few pages.

Frickn Yahoo · May 28, 2018

Why cant the ATF just approve people because theres nothing that prohibits these to citizens on a federal level?

erwos · May 28, 2018

Rwrighttt said:
Why cant the ATF just approve people because theres nothing that prohibits these to citizens on a federal level?

They have no authority from Congress to approve them. Ironically, this is one of the times the ATF is acting within their bounds.

44man · May 29, 2018

This is what hogan and the mga wanted. It’s what was signed into law.

Now that the atf isn’t taking any more “applications “ we have till 10/1/18, this year, to play with our toys then either destroy them or turn them in or be felons.

Sure, someone can be a test case and then lawyer up then sue.

I don’t want to be the test case in md, that’s for sure

So we have to decide, do what the law says, or become felons or take your toys outta md

This is how I see it. I would like to be wrong and if I am someone let me know

Bountied · May 29, 2018

Can't MSI sue MD on behalf of it's members? This law is ridiculous because you can never get approval from the ATF. The law has to be illegal in it's current format. Why not replace ATF with MSP and then problem solved.

benton0311 · May 29, 2018

erwos said:
They have no authority from Congress to approve them. Ironically, this is one of the times the ATF is acting within their bounds.

But, they can tell you that they are "not disapproved" per Federal law, which they have already done with the earlier decision memos clarifying their positions on binary triggers and bump stocks. The legal precedent has long been established that something is legal until a law is enacted that makes it illegal. How does MSP approve of regulated firearms transfers? By issuing a "Not Disapproved." By not disapproving they have granted approval. By telling you that something is "not unauthorized" you have received implied authorization.

It would seem you would be in compliance by sending a letter (or email) to the ATF and requesting copies of their decision memos. You have requested implied approval and received a "not disapproved", all while having the paperwork to back it up.

This differs from the OP's request since he requested explicit approval, which they don't have the authority to do. But they should certainly be able to tell you that something is "not disapproved" as long as you word the request right.

biermkr · May 29, 2018

esqappellate said:
I have a request. Would everyone out there with a now banned device please join MSI? $25 a year. https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/join And please let me know that you have. Thanks.

I have just joined.

swinokur · May 29, 2018

ATF is doing what MD asked them to do.

The official position has been clarified by ATF.

You aren’t going to get anything beyond that

Just my opinion

Grandfathering for Bump Stocks or Binary Triggers

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