308 win powder to get me started

byf43 · Mar 21, 2018

Finally found the pic that I have, showing accuracy with powders.

H-4895 and W-748.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 21, 2018

Re #5 - With the M-14 that's more an issue of pressure Curve than peak pressure.

For peak pressure issues between 7.62 vs .30i8 Win , that would be the FR-8 conversions of 1916 Mausers and very early CETME rifles .

Screwtop.243 · Mar 21, 2018

I'm 1/4 to half MOA @ 300 yds with 42.0 grains of IMR 4895 out of my Savage FCP-SR with both 168 grain SMK's and 165 grain Gamekings. It's a bit dirty but very consistent. I've also used IMR 4350 with lighter bullets (125 grain Noslers). Haven't tried Varget. Would rather save it for use in the 22-250 and .204

dist1646 · Mar 22, 2018

ras_oscar said:
Please verify my understanding is correct. It is derived from several sources and may be incomplete. I want to fully understand the implication of selecting 308 win vs 7.62x51ammo to shoot and reload in my .308 rifle.

1. The rounds will both operate safely in a rifle designed for .308 Winchester
2. Because the 7.62 has thinner case walls and is loaded with a lower powder charge, the 7.62 may not take as many reloadings as a .308.
3. 7.62 may be loaded with berdan primers, which could be corrosive and cannot be removed punched with a traditional single pin decapping die.
4. 7.62 primers may be loaded with primer sealant which makes decapping even boxer primed carts more difficult than without sealant.
5. It is not safe to use 308 Winchester in a rifle designed for 7.62x51 because of the higher pressures in the 308 cartridge.

1. Depends on the specific chamber design.
2. Military brass is normally thicker thus the reason most reloading manuals suggest reducing the load by approx. 1/2 grain for military brass.
3. True though this is primarily limited to foreign manufactured ammo.
4. Sealant doesn't make depriming more difficult, crimped primers do. The crimp must be removed before seating new primers during reloading.
5. Never had an issue with this. The CETME version is where the problem arises.

K-43 · Mar 22, 2018

dist1646 said:
5. Never had an issue with this. The CETME version is where the problem arises.

This is totally off topic, however...
The CETME low pressure myth has been debunked on several boards with the Spanish documents. Spain loaded the 7.62 CETME to the same 3500 kps²/50k CUP as NATO rounds, but with a lighter bullet and probably a faster powder.
You don't have to read Spanish to get the significant numbers and titles from the horses mouth: 3500 kps² for both CETME and NATO cartidges.
I am not advocating nor proposing anyone shoot 7.62 NATO nor 308 in Pre-1898 model Mausers. My own Small Rings are in 257 Roberts and 300 Savage, just to err on the safer side. The documentation just doesn't support the "Low Pressure CETME" story we hear repeated.

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Not_an_outlaw · Mar 22, 2018

Petar said:
Anyone still use IMR3031?

Yes, I do. 168 grain Nosler Competition BT or something, Can't remember the name.

dist1646 · Mar 23, 2018

K-43 said:
This is totally off topic, however...
The CETME low pressure myth has been debunked on several boards with the Spanish documents. Spain loaded the 7.62 CETME to the same 3500 kps²/50k CUP as NATO rounds, but with a lighter bullet and probably a faster powder.
You don't have to read Spanish to get the significant numbers and titles from the horses mouth: 3500 kps² for both CETME and NATO cartidges.
I am not advocating nor proposing anyone shoot 7.62 NATO nor 308 in Pre-1898 model Mausers. My own Small Rings are in 257 Roberts and 300 Savage, just to err on the safer side. The documentation just doesn't support the "Low Pressure CETME" story we hear repeated.

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Interesting but, the difference is in the case. Even Wikipedia has this one wrong. The CETME case is weaker and has different dimensions than the 7.62x51. CETME bullets are significantly lighter in design than the bullet used in the 7.62x51. In testing, the CETME case failed under NATO charges.

ras_oscar · Mar 23, 2018

I'm fixin' to grab some primers and powder this weekend. when I stocked up on pistol primers I fortunately had need for both small and large, since a *few * of my .45ACP cases took small primers. do ALL 308 cases take large rifle primers, or are there some brass cases in the industry that take small rifle primers?

Also, need I worry at the first reloading about measuring and trimming cases from once fired brass, or is that something that I needn't concern with until the second reloading?

K-43 · Mar 23, 2018

dist1646 said:
Interesting but, the difference is in the case. Even Wikipedia has this one wrong. The CETME case is weaker and has different dimensions than the 7.62x51. CETME bullets are significantly lighter in design than the bullet used in the 7.62x51. In testing, the CETME case failed under NATO charges.

Oh, agreed! I'm not arguing it's the same as 7.62x51 NATO. It was specifically designed for use in the CETME A and B rifles, not to interchange with 7.62 NATO.
Let's just be accurrate about what those differences are and not pass on "my granny said". :thumbsup:

Major03 · Mar 23, 2018

ras_oscar said:
I'm fixin' to grab some primers and powder this weekend. when I stocked up on pistol primers I fortunately had need for both small and large, since a *few * of my .45ACP cases took small primers. do ALL 308 cases take large rifle primers, or are there some brass cases in the industry that take small rifle primers?

Also, need I worry at the first reloading about measuring and trimming cases from once fired brass, or is that something that I needn't concern with until the second reloading?

They'll all be large rifle primers.

I would size and trim, chamfer and deburr all the cases if they are once fired. Not only to check to make sure they are all in spec, but to uniform them. Accuracy is all about reducing / eliminating variables. Reloading lets you do that with the ammo, so do it. YMMV.

dist1646 · Mar 23, 2018

Major03 said:
They'll all be large rifle primers.

I would size and trim, chamfer and deburr all the cases if they are once fired. Not only to check to make sure they are all in spec, but to uniform them. Accuracy is all about reducing / eliminating variables. Reloading lets you do that with the ammo, so do it. YMMV.

Almost all take large rifle primers. Lapua does offer brass with small primer pockets for PALMA . You are not normally going to see those cases though.
Just an FYI for the OP.

ras_oscar · Apr 5, 2018

A couple more questions as I inch closer to reloading for my new .308 autoloader ( previous experience in reloading pistol cartridges only)

1. Lee tells me that in addition to the 4 die "ultimate" .308 set I need to purchase a powder through die to charge cases on the press. Am I better off purchasing the double disk powder set, or can I use the adjustable charge bar? or can In use a single disk and pull the handle twice?
2. I plan to use the full length sizing die instead of the neck sizer, since although I will use mostly my own brass, if there are range pickups available I'm not turning them down. Is there a risk that full length resizing will over work the brass and wear it out early?
3. There is an option to purchase an on press case trimmer. Am I better off getting a separate off press trimmer?
4. I have the on press lee autoprime with small and large primer dispensers. Will these work for rifle primers or are they only meant for pistol primers?
5.

steves1911 · Apr 5, 2018

Not familiar with the press you are running but full length sizing does effect case life but not a lot. I fl size all my 308 and 223 because of having multiple weapons in each caliber and semi auto usage. The only exception is a rem 700 308 I make up specific "match" ammo for just that gun. I have gotten 7 reloads on one piece of 308 that was fl sized each time.

BUFF7MM · Apr 5, 2018

ras_oscar said:
A couple more questions as I inch closer to reloading for my new .308 autoloader ( previous experience in reloading pistol cartridges only)

1. Lee tells me that in addition to the 4 die "ultimate" .308 set I need to purchase a powder through die to charge cases on the press. Am I better off purchasing the double disk powder set, or can I use the adjustable charge bar? or can In use a single disk and pull the handle twice?
2. I plan to use the full length sizing die instead of the neck sizer, since although I will use mostly my own brass, if there are range pickups available I'm not turning them down. Is there a risk that full length resizing will over work the brass and wear it out early?
3. There is an option to purchase an on press case trimmer. Am I better off getting a separate off press trimmer?
4. I have the on press lee autoprime with small and large primer dispensers. Will these work for rifle primers or are they only meant for pistol primers?
5.

You’ll never get the adjustable charge bar to open up enough to get the size charge you ned for the 308. With what your thinking of using you’d be better off with the double disk kit. Is the on press trimmer a Lee product? I’ve never heard of it if it is.
I load on a Lee turret press and with the exception of 223/5.56 I remove the rod and load all my rifles like a single stage and charge cases in batches, for the 223/5.56 I use on of these. https://leeprecision.com/auto-drum-powder-measure.html
It will work way better than the double disk set up you spoke of but you’d also need to purchase the rifle charging die that you spoke of too. I just haven’t got around to buying a few for my rifle calibers yet or I’d be loading my other rifle calibers this way also.

For my trimming I use a non traditional setup it’s an RCBS case prep station with some Lee case length gauge/trimmers.
https://youtu.be/hiSvXPhR7CU

Yep, I suck with videos and explaining stuff etc.ect., but I’m sure you’ll get the idea of my trimming.
Oh and I’ve done away with the primer pocket brush step since I now wet tumble.

Major03 · Apr 5, 2018

ras_oscar said:
A couple more questions as I inch closer to reloading for my new .308 autoloader ( previous experience in reloading pistol cartridges only)

1. Lee tells me that in addition to the 4 die "ultimate" .308 set I need to purchase a powder through die to charge cases on the press. Am I better off purchasing the double disk powder set, or can I use the adjustable charge bar? or can In use a single disk and pull the handle twice?

I have used a Lee turret press and Lee dies for years, but only used it as a single stage press for rifle cartridges. So you don't NEED to purchase a powder through die.

2. I plan to use the full length sizing die instead of the neck sizer, since although I will use mostly my own brass, if there are range pickups available I'm not turning them down. Is there a risk that full length resizing will over work the brass and wear it out early?

It will work your brass more than a neck sizing only die (and if you have the Lee die set you probably have the Collet die which is a great die...for bolt guns). If you're shooting an autoloader, you don't have a neck sizing only option...you really should full length resize anyway, regardless of range pick up or not.

You can greatly add to your case life by annealing your brass.

3. There is an option to purchase an on press case trimmer. Am I better off getting a separate off press trimmer?

Depends on how much money you want to spend. I prefer to do my rifle case prep in batches and stages so off the press is my preference. Case prep gets pretty tedious, so making the trimming go faster is definitely nice.

Gunwork's Little Crow and Giraud's shoulder indexing trimmers are popular and make quick work of the task, but you'll need to full length resize first since it indexes off of the shoulder, and it can sometimes throw off your neck concentricity if you're not being careful.

I actually like Lee's quick trim system matched with a cordless screwdriver. Nice in that it also chamfers and deburrs at the same time and takes away that next task.

Here's a good rundown of the trimming options.

https://squibloads.wordpress.com/reloading/what-is-the-best-case-trimmer/

4. I have the on press lee autoprime with small and large primer dispensers. Will these work for rifle primers or are they only meant for pistol primers?
5.

Yes, that'll work with rifle primers

ras_oscar · Apr 6, 2018

My new scope and mount arrived yesterday. Decided to try sighting in the red dot with my new boressight before mounting the new optical scope.. Now that I have found the WRONG way to get the bore sight out of the chamber, what's the correct way? Am I supposed to lube it before inserting into the chamber?

Pinecone · Apr 6, 2018

Case life depends on how much you size the case.

If you adjust the dies according to the directions (slight cam over) you will size back to near new brass specs. You can adjust the die to size it the minimum required to easily.

If you want your reloads to chamber in any rifle, size to SAMMI specs. If you only shoot one or a few rifles, you can size just enough for the tightest chamber.

Best to use a comparator, but size to 3 - 5 thousandths shoulder set back for semi auto and 1 - 2 thou for bolt action. If more than one rifle, size based on smallest chamber, that way they will work fine in all your rifles.

ras_oscar · Apr 9, 2018

Buff7mm said:
Is the on press trimmer a Lee product? I’ve never heard of it if it is.
.

See link below

https://leeprecision.com/deluxe-quick-trim-case-trimmer.html

308 win powder to get me started

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