AR "newbie" - Why so many AR pics w/safety on "Fire" ?

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  • Long1MD

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2013
    1,113
    Too far gone
    Show them this side...my latest build
     

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    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,371
    Hampstead
    Show them this side...my latest build
    Best answer yet. Someone follows directions! Ya see people, it was about an odd observation of PHOTOGRAPHIC CONTENT. Not a discussion on the merits of gun safety, the functionality of compnonents of the AR platform, or child rearing. Jeesh! Why can't internet-ians ever just respond to the actual topic? No, seriously all good info though, for a black rifle novice I do appreciate hearing the various advice, as misplaced as it was.

    For those that probably never noticed what I was talking about, you probably will now look for it every time you see an AR pic - and HATE me for it....You're welcome! ;-)
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Best answer yet. Someone follows directions! Ya see people, it was about an odd observation of PHOTOGRAPHIC CONTENT. Not a discussion on the merits of gun safety, the functionality of compnonents of the AR platform, or child rearing. Jeesh! Why can't internet-ians ever just respond to the actual topic? No, seriously all good info though, for a black rifle novice I do appreciate hearing the various advice, as misplaced as it was.

    For those that probably never noticed what I was talking about, you probably will now look for it every time you see an AR pic - and HATE me for it....You're welcome! ;-)

    Then I guess you need to work on being clearer. Because you specifically called out WHY most of them show the AR set for "F"'and not "S". Not "why do most show the side of the rifle with the safety".

    So if you want to try to save face with twisting what you were originally asking, you can try, but your org I am question was very clear.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    ... Not advocating giving guns to 3 YOs. :rolleyes:

    But "Pappa says it won't hurt us."

    3173a84b5f14dcbc5b6c2b9a11a5eb8f.jpg




    But meanwhile,

    ... In a way it shows the gun has been racked to verify an empty chamber, and released to assure it cannot be loaded again and accidentally fired.

    ...



    How do you know there isn't a live round in the chamber? Maybe someone did load it again. You would need to rack it again and re-verify that empty chamber, no matter what the selector position is.

    No matter what the selector position is, the only way to know the rifle is clear without re-racking it is if the bolt and port cover are both open. Bonus points if there's an Empty Chamber Indicator in place.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I only take pictures of loaded firearms, with the safety off. Is BGOS so bad that we worry about a picture?
     

    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,371
    Hampstead
    Thanks for all the input. I didn't think this would create a debate, I thought a few would say "yeah that is weird", or offer a more precise explanation as to why it seems to be the norm in a lot of photos. I think I got my answer, it just seems to be a normal practice with this firearm platform. Like I said, in 40 years of shooting and multiple types of firearm ownership I'm only 6 months into the AR community, so thanks for all the constructive replies & the education.

    BTW I Googled this topic earlier today and found this topic is actually a more heated debate than I would've guessed (try AR15.com if you're curious). A few responses I did see was the US Army training manual supposedly mandates this "empty & safe" method of hammer spring down selector on "F" that others have suggested in this thread. That condition makes sense to me in as far as the relief to the hammer spring. It is still a weird visual cue in my mind though, but I'm learning now. In fact, this old dog might just learn this new trick for all the AR toys in the safe.

    I still reiterate though that the graphic depiction (photograph) of a weapon that could be construed as hot seems unusual to me. I'm not passing judgement on the actual practice one way or the other, it's just contrary to decades of previous learned firearm safety. It seemed weird to me, but now that I've seen the topic debated it's a lot less weird, and I'm almost to the "it makes perfect sense to me" stage. I GET IT that it could be the safest practice of all, but the simple fact is that you cannot determine intent or that particular person's level of experience with the weapon's equipment by a photograph. If you intended to show your weapon as hot & ready to send rounds down range, it would look EXACTLY THE SAME as one that went thru the aforementioned safety procedures. 100% the same. A gun on " S" won't send a bullet down range, regardless of what you did or didn't do with the bolt, the magazine, etc...

    A final thought: In the current political climate we live in regarding Guns nationally and in the Communist Republic of MD, I think it would be wiser that future pics should probably show the selector in the "S" position, at least for the photo. The fact those of us inside the firearm community debate this topic should give you an idea what could happen outside the community. Don't give the Libs anything else to grab onto. Thanks again to all the helped with this, and with that I'M TAPPING OUT.
     

    Sirex

    Powered by natural gas
    Oct 30, 2010
    10,380
    Westminster, MD
    This is why I ONLY let my kids play with the .32 Iver Johnson. I mean, if I let them play with my CZ75, that only has a decocker and no safety, I would be a poor parent.


    But "Pappa says it won't hurt us."

    3173a84b5f14dcbc5b6c2b9a11a5eb8f.jpg




    But meanwhile,





    How do you know there isn't a live round in the chamber? Maybe someone did load it again. You would need to rack it again and re-verify that empty chamber, no matter what the selector position is.

    No matter what the selector position is, the only way to know the rifle is clear without re-racking it is if the bolt and port cover are both open. Bonus points if there's an Empty Chamber Indicator in place.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Can you get any "safer" than hammer down on empty chamber ?

    Upper removed from lower. lol

    Then, you would need a pointy thing and a hammer to fire a round down that upper.

    As far as the rest of this thread is concerned, meh. I don't really worry all that much about the mechanical safety on firearms. All my handguns are stored with the safeties off and a loaded mag in them. Only thing I have to do is rack the slide on them and they are ready to go.

    When I hunt, I rarely use the safety unless the gun is going to be out of my hands. When the gun is in my hands, I have the safety off. When I lay it on the ground, against the side of the blind, etc., I use the safety IF I just don't throw the bolt back and remove the round in the first place.

    I have had more loaded guns pointed at me in the field than I care to remember, and some were pointed at me by very good friends of mine. I asked them to point the gun away from me and the usual response was "Oh, don't worry, the safety is on." Wish I could have wrapped the gun around their head without being subjected to criminal charges.

    Treat every gun like it is loaded. Check the chamber and the mag any time somebody hands you a gun, even if they just checked it. Never point the gun's muzzle at anything you do not want to destroy. Know what is behind what you are shooting at. Lock the gun up when not in use. Guessing I am missing some important stuff in there. Oh yeah, before firing the first round, check the barrel for obstructions.

    And make damn sure you are not taking pics of these guns with the safety selector on "FIRE" or showing a little red band on it.

    My youngest, a 4 year old, got to hold my HK USP9 Compact today. First time she has ever held a gun and she was so excited. However, we had to go over the safety rules before I handed it to her for her to hold. Then, before I handed it to her, I dropped the mag, pulled the slide back, looked into the chamber area to ensure that the extractor did not fail to pull a live round out, put it on safety, and handed it to her while I held onto the loaded mag. After she handed it back to me, she pointed to the first bullet in the mag and asked me how something so small could kill somebody and send them to Heaven with Nitro (my dog that just passed away in March). Explained how bullets work, that they leave 2 holes in most people, that they blow up hearts and lungs, and that people die because they lose all their blood. Her response, "Ok daddy."
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    A final thought: In the current political climate we live in regarding Guns nationally and in the Communist Republic of MD, I think it would be wiser that future pics should probably show the selector in the "S" position, at least for the photo. The fact those of us inside the firearm community debate this topic should give you an idea what could happen outside the community. Don't give the Libs anything else to grab onto. Thanks again to all the helped with this, and with that I'M TAPPING OUT.

    And this is what BGOS looks like.


    :omg::omg:

    We don't want to freak out the Libtards that don't know jack about firearms, so we'll put the selector on Safe, so they can see we aren't bloodthirsty killers of children and puppies. :rolleyes:

    Get a freakin' grip. They are still going to push for a total ban, no matter what we do.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Thanks for all the input. I didn't think this would create a debate, I thought a few would say "yeah that is weird", or offer a more precise explanation as to why it seems to be the norm in a lot of photos. I think I got my answer, it just seems to be a normal practice with this firearm platform. Like I said, in 40 years of shooting and multiple types of firearm ownership I'm only 6 months into the AR community, so thanks for all the constructive replies & the education.

    BTW I Googled this topic earlier today and found this topic is actually a more heated debate than I would've guessed (try AR15.com if you're curious). A few responses I did see was the US Army training manual supposedly mandates this "empty & safe" method of hammer spring down selector on "F" that others have suggested in this thread. That condition makes sense to me in as far as the relief to the hammer spring. It is still a weird visual cue in my mind though, but I'm learning now. In fact, this old dog might just learn this new trick for all the AR toys in the safe.

    I still reiterate though that the graphic depiction (photograph) of a weapon that could be construed as hot seems unusual to me. I'm not passing judgement on the actual practice one way or the other, it's just contrary to decades of previous learned firearm safety. It seemed weird to me, but now that I've seen the topic debated it's a lot less weird, and I'm almost to the "it makes perfect sense to me" stage. I GET IT that it could be the safest practice of all, but the simple fact is that you cannot determine intent or that particular person's level of experience with the weapon's equipment by a photograph. If you intended to show your weapon as hot & ready to send rounds down range, it would look EXACTLY THE SAME as one that went thru the aforementioned safety procedures. 100% the same. A gun on " S" won't send a bullet down range, regardless of what you did or didn't do with the bolt, the magazine, etc...

    A final thought: In the current political climate we live in regarding Guns nationally and in the Communist Republic of MD, I think it would be wiser that future pics should probably show the selector in the "S" position, at least for the photo. The fact those of us inside the firearm community debate this topic should give you an idea what could happen outside the community. Don't give the Libs anything else to grab onto. Thanks again to all the helped with this, and with that I'M TAPPING OUT.

    Im certain that you knew it would cause a debate. You hit on some phrases in the original post that would ensure it. :sad20:

    FWIW, ill be 100% certain that all of my AR pics are taken with the safety off from here on out.
     

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