sb281 and ar10s and Hbars

md123 · Apr 21, 2013

gmkoh said:
"except Colt AR–15 Sporter H–BAR rifle"

the COLT SPORTER HBAR was a specific model that colt made. A bushmaster Hbar is not a colt sporter, so as I see it, the bill does not specifically exempt all Hbars, but it has been reported that the MSP has interpreted the exemption to include all Hbars. The question is, does anyone have an official MSP interpretation to that effect? There is one said to exist.

I would think that "copy" (not "copy cat") cuts both ways. It traps you for banned firearms, but helps you in this HBAR instance. If an AK copy is banned, an HBAR copy should be legal....right?

SigMatt · Apr 21, 2013

Ok, so what about rebarreling a legally owned pre-October AR? I shoot out my existing barrel, can I replace it with a flash hider equipped new barrel? The gun is already pre-ban in a pre-ban configuration. Can I replace like-with-like?

Matt

teratos · Apr 21, 2013

mpickering said:
Ok, so what about rebarreling a legally owned pre-October AR? I shoot out my existing barrel, can I replace it with a flash hider equipped new barrel? The gun is already pre-ban in a pre-ban configuration. Can I replace like-with-like?

Matt

Yes.

Merlin · Apr 22, 2013

vc1911 said:
Help me, I've read so much I'm getting snow blind.

As I read it there is no provision for the AR-10 and the Hbar rifles are stil ok.
http://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=835OWi-sH2U=&tabid=423&mid=1072

http://www.marylandshallissue.org/share/SafetyActFAQ.pdf
so Hbars are unaffected? From hear on out everyone can still buy Hbars with 10rd mags? Would this only be for the Colt Hbar and not the bushys and others?

As far as I know if you read the list it is only the Colt HBar.

Ab_Normal · Apr 22, 2013

Merlin said:
As far as I know if you read the list it is only the Colt HBar.

Based on your reading then it also only applies to Colt ar-15's and Colt car-15's.

gmkoh · Apr 22, 2013

md123 said:
I would think that "copy" (not "copy cat") cuts both ways. It traps you for banned firearms, but helps you in this HBAR instance. If an AK copy is banned, an HBAR copy should be legal....right?

Yes- this is where the question of interpretation comes in. If copies of banned banned are banned, shouldn't copies of exempted firearms also be exempted, OR

Are the exemptions specific exemptions to "copies" of banned firearms?

So far all AR Hbars seem to be exempted per phone calls to the MSP, but what legal weight does that hold? I have been told at least one gun store received a letter form MSP stating that the exemption extended to all HBARS, but do not know who that was. I would feel so much better with something from someone is writing, but maybe it is not the best thing to pursue. If you aren't sure of the answer, sometimes you shouldn't ask the question

J Beard · Apr 22, 2013

So.....
If i were to buy a lower now (stripped or complete) and some parts.

How much of a complete rifle would I have to buy before Oct 1 to be legal?
A lower and a barrel? A lower a barrel and a stripped upper? More?

I can't afford a complete rifle now , but hopefully I can afford to build one "Johnny Cash" style.

And to think... I had no desire to have one at all before all of this nonsense started.

Merlin · Apr 22, 2013

Ab_Normal said:
Based on your reading then it also only applies to Colt ar-15's and Colt car-15's.

How so? There are Colt AR-15's that are not HBars. I'm talking about HBars and HBars only.

vcaddy05 · Apr 22, 2013

J Beard said:
So.....
If i were to buy a lower now (stripped or complete) and some parts.

How much of a complete rifle would I have to buy before Oct 1 to be legal?
A lower and a barrel? A lower a barrel and a stripped upper? More?

I can't afford a complete rifle now , but hopefully I can afford to build one "Johnny Cash" style.

And to think... I had no desire to have one at all before all of this nonsense started.

Yea I'm not sure myself, my plan is to have a few lowers and at least a complete upper by the time OCT 1 comes.

Merlin · Apr 22, 2013

can anyone get on the MSP web site today?

J Beard · Apr 22, 2013

vcaddy05 said:
Yea I'm not sure myself, my plan is to have a few lowers and at least a complete upper by the time OCT 1 comes.

I have decided to make this a thread all its own

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=117017

dblas · Apr 22, 2013

Merlin said:
How so? There are Colt AR-15's that are not HBars. I'm talking about HBars and HBars only.

Based on your reading, you think this only applies to COLT HBARs, and not others.

By that reasoning, then the only AR or CAR model banned would be those built by COLT, so DPMS. POF, Bushmaster and other would not be affected by the ban.

But since we know that the other manufacturers will be banned (they are regulated now), then the same logic would follow that an HBAR from any other manufacturer would also be cash and carry today and possibly exempt after October 1 along with the COLT.

That is how so.....

Merlin · Apr 22, 2013

dblas said:
Based on your reading, you think this only applies to COLT HBARs, and not others.

By that reasoning, then the only AR or CAR model banned would be those built by COLT, so DPMS. POF, Bushmaster and other would not be affected by the ban.

But since we know that the other manufacturers will be banned (they are regulated now), then the same logic would follow that an HBAR from any other manufacturer would also be cash and carry today and possibly exempt after October 1 along with the COLT.

That is how so.....

I disagree. Your reading way to much into the law/regulated list.

dblas · Apr 22, 2013

Merlin said:
I disagree. Your reading way to much into the law/regulated list.

Then so are you. You stated earlier that ONLY the COLT HBAR is unregulated as defined by the law.

I said, then by that logic, ONLY the COLT AR and CAR are regulated, and not other manufacturers.

You can't have it both ways (and by extension, neither can the state).

You can't say all Manufacturers are regulated copies of the COLT AR and CAR and then say, they are not regular copies of the COLT HBAR.

Suffice it to say that today, the COLT HBAR is not the only cash and carry (non-regulated) HBAR in Maryland. MSP has made that determination and given that advise to gun shops. I believe there is one that still has a letter stating such from MSP.

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2013

Merlin said:
can anyone get on the MSP web site today?

Likely the MSP have copies of the bill, but does it matter that the bill STILL isn't signed yet?

janklow · Apr 22, 2013

dblas said:
Based on your reading, you think this only applies to COLT HBARs, and not others.

By that reasoning, then the only AR or CAR model banned would be those built by COLT, so DPMS. POF, Bushmaster and other would not be affected by the ban.

actually in all fairness --because i agree with you on your reading of the HBAR issue-- the list says "Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle." DPMS, Bushmaster, whatever would be the "imitations."

but again, i agree with you on the HBAR thing; if standing MSP policy has been any HBAR is fine --and i think we have all seen enough of them being sold to know that's the case-- i don't know why we're trying to argue against that.

occbrian · Apr 22, 2013

Isn't this a reverse attainder of some sort?

You can't enact a law that allows ONE specific company to produce the only legal ar-15 type rifle, right?

Ab_Normal · Apr 22, 2013

Merlin said:
As far as I know if you read the list it is only the Colt HBar.

Merlin said:
How so? There are Colt AR-15's that are not HBars. I'm talking about HBars and HBars only.

The second category consists of “a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon...”

The above applies to ALL assault weapons on the list correct?

"Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle;"

So if we apply the "... copies, regardless..." individually to all the firearms on the list this is what we come up with:

Colt AR15's and their copies are regulated.
Colt CAR15's and their copies are regulated.
Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle and their copies are not regulated.

It really is that simple.

Markp · Apr 23, 2013

We need to make a Fricken' sticky about this topic...

I want to :facepalm:

myself every time I see this what is and is not regulated discussion come up, especially with receivers. Double F'ing :facepalm:

!!! Ab Normal and Dblas seem to get it.

teratos · Apr 23, 2013

occbrian said:
Isn't this a reverse attainder of some sort?

You can't enact a law that allows ONE specific company to produce the only legal ar-15 type rifle, right?

I would think so.

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