Why the heck are sub caliber inserts for flare guns banned?

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  • Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    So, just for grins and giggles, I decided to order another subcaliber insert for a 26.5 mm military flare gun (one that will allow you to shoot .410/.45 Colt). Now, I realize that the insertion of such a device constitutes the construction of a handgun... but that's still legal in MD and federally. I see on the page a whole list of states where the company will not ship.... and sure enough, MD is on the list.

    Now I have purchased these things before with no trouble, and I know that there has been no new legislation that has passed recently that should ban these in MD. When I contact their customer service to ask why they wouldn't ship, this is the response I got.

    "We are advised by the State Attorney General's office that we cannot ship those items across the state lines. We would love to be able to but cannot until they tell us otherwise.
    Kristie
    Customer Service"

    So my question is what gives the Barron the authority to ban these? Not that I really needed it, but it pisses me off that I can't get one. :mad54:
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    This company does not exclude Maryland.

    https://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-sub-caliber-device-flare-gun-insert

    Maybe the people you are dealing with just want to be overly cautious, just like some of the vendors in VA who choose not to sell legal long guns to Maryland residents.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    Thanks. Better price too. So I guess it is just corporate laziness on the other company's part. Well as long as there is someone else who wants to take my money, so it shall be.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    I have 12ga inserts for my 25mm flare gun so I can buy cheaper flares to meet Coast Guard regs in my boat.

    You used to be able to buy these at any boating supply store.

    I had a 25mm flare gun on the boat, with the sub caliber insert for the white practice flares.
     

    MaxVO2

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    I used to have them mailed to my house. I have 12ga inserts for my 25mm flare gun so I can buy cheaper flares to meet Coast Guard regs in my boat.

    ****Ok, I'll admit I'm a bit (ok, a lot) ignorant about this. You mean you can fire a 12 gauge shotgun shell/slug from a flare gun? :shocking:

    A guy at our range brought out an old Thompson T/C Contender single shot with I think a .30-.30 rifle cartridge insert and it had *brutal* recoil. It was just stupid painful, and made my 8 inch .44 mag model 29 S&W with heavy loads seem *easy* to shoot in comparison.

    I've seen flare guns on boats before and they don't seem *that* sturdy of a device - mostly for emergency use, and not all that heavy. Hopefully, you are just firing 12gauge flares out of that thing and not shotgun shells with 00 Buck or slugs.

    Dunno...
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,005
    Harford County
    ****Ok, I'll admit I'm a bit (ok, a lot) ignorant about this. You mean you can fire a 12 gauge shotgun shell/slug from a flare gun? :shocking:

    A guy at our range brought out an old Thompson T/C Contender single shot with I think a .30-.30 rifle cartridge insert and it had *brutal* recoil. It was just stupid painful, and made my 8 inch .44 mag model 29 S&W with heavy loads seem *easy* to shoot in comparison.

    I've seen flare guns on boats before and they don't seem *that* sturdy of a device - mostly for emergency use, and not all that heavy. Hopefully, you are just firing 12gauge flares out of that thing and not shotgun shells with 00 Buck or slugs.

    Dunno...

    LOL! Years ago a friend had a Contender with a 45-70 barrel. That thing was a blast to shoot, but you didn't want to shoot it a bunch!
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,729
    Socialist State of Maryland
    ****Ok, I'll admit I'm a bit (ok, a lot) ignorant about this. You mean you can fire a 12 gauge shotgun shell/slug from a flare gun? :shocking:

    A guy at our range brought out an old Thompson T/C Contender single shot with I think a .30-.30 rifle cartridge insert and it had *brutal* recoil. It was just stupid painful, and made my 8 inch .44 mag model 29 S&W with heavy loads seem *easy* to shoot in comparison.

    I've seen flare guns on boats before and they don't seem *that* sturdy of a device - mostly for emergency use, and not all that heavy. Hopefully, you are just firing 12gauge flares out of that thing and not shotgun shells with 00 Buck or slugs.

    Dunno...

    No, you can fire 12ga flares.

    Actually, you can fire a 12ga shotgun shell out of it...once. :D
     

    ted76

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 20, 2013
    3,151
    Frederick
    LOL! Years ago a friend had a Contender with a 45-70 barrel. That thing was a blast to shoot, but you didn't want to shoot it a bunch!

    I have an Encore with 3 barrels,
    the .223 Rem.is a dream to shoot,
    the .243 Win. is a handful,
    the .308 Win. is a beast.
     

    Brickman301

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 23, 2015
    2,530
    FREDERICK, MD
    ****Ok, I'll admit I'm a bit (ok, a lot) ignorant about this. You mean you can fire a 12 gauge shotgun shell/slug from a flare gun? :shocking:

    A guy at our range brought out an old Thompson T/C Contender single shot with I think a .30-.30 rifle cartridge insert and it had *brutal* recoil. It was just stupid painful, and made my 8 inch .44 mag model 29 S&W with heavy loads seem *easy* to shoot in comparison.

    I've seen flare guns on boats before and they don't seem *that* sturdy of a device - mostly for emergency use, and not all that heavy. Hopefully, you are just firing 12gauge flares out of that thing and not shotgun shells with 00 Buck or slugs.

    Dunno...

    I have a contender with a 30-30 barrel. Lol, yep she’s a hand full! I have been able to take 2 deer with it. It Doesn’t come out often anymore though.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,729
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Back around 1983, I was attending the 4th of July festivities in Marysville, PA. I don't know if they are still as Patriotic today, but for a small town, they had a nice parade and celebration. During the day, a friend took me to a farm owned by a friend or his, a fellow vet and firearms enthusiast. Out of all the guns we shot that day, the Thompson Center Contender in 45-70 was the most memorable. When he gave it to me to shoot (I was first), I took a normal two hand shooting stance and he quickly stopped me. He said you have to shoot this laying down, Creedmore style.

    After I touched it off I understood what he meant. The barrel was about 14" or so and it belched out a flame like flame thrower. :shocked3: I was a still slim and strong in those days (no laughing) and that gun recoiled until it was pointed straight up! I'm sure glad he only let us shoot it once. :cool:
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Back around 1983, I was attending the 4th of July festivities in Marysville, PA. I don't know if they are still as Patriotic today, but for a small town, they had a nice parade and celebration. During the day, a friend took me to a farm owned by a friend or his, a fellow vet and firearms enthusiast. Out of all the guns we shot that day, the Thompson Center Contender in 45-70 was the most memorable. When he gave it to me to shoot (I was first), I took a normal two hand shooting stance and he quickly stopped me. He said you have to shoot this laying down, Creedmore style.

    After I touched it off I understood what he meant. The barrel was about 14" or so and it belched out a flame like flame thrower. :shocked3: I was a still slim and strong in those days (no laughing) and that gun recoiled until it was pointed straight up! I'm sure glad he only let us shoot it once. :cool:

    BFR makes a .45-70 revolver... just in case you want the experience 5 times without reloading :D
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    BTW... here was my response this morning to the original Customer service message.

    "Thanks for your response. The MD Attorney General (Brian Frosh) has a history of trying to intimidate businesses he doesn't like into not conducting business in MD even though there is no legal authority to do so. No problem, it is your business and you must protect yourself as you see fit. I found a competitor who has no problem selling said item where not restricted by law (and about $300 worth of other stuff I also picked up last night). I wish you well."
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    So, just for grins and giggles, I decided to order another subcaliber insert for a 26.5 mm military flare gun (one that will allow you to shoot .410/.45 Colt). Now, I realize that the insertion of such a device constitutes the construction of a handgun... but that's still legal in MD and federally. I see on the page a whole list of states where the company will not ship.... and sure enough, MD is on the list.

    Now I have purchased these things before with no trouble, and I know that there has been no new legislation that has passed recently that should ban these in MD. When I contact their customer service to ask why they wouldn't ship, this is the response I got.

    "We are advised by the State Attorney General's office that we cannot ship those items across the state lines. We would love to be able to but cannot until they tell us otherwise.
    Kristie
    Customer Service"

    So my question is what gives the Barron the authority to ban these? Not that I really needed it, but it pisses me off that I can't get one. :mad54:

    Your question should be "who else will ship these to Maryland?", otherwise can't do anything about what the business or Maryland says or does.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,154
    Last edited:

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    ****Ok, I'll admit I'm a bit (ok, a lot) ignorant about this. You mean you can fire a 12 gauge shotgun shell/slug from a flare gun? :shocking:

    A guy at our range brought out an old Thompson T/C Contender single shot with I think a .30-.30 rifle cartridge insert and it had *brutal* recoil. It was just stupid painful, and made my 8 inch .44 mag model 29 S&W with heavy loads seem *easy* to shoot in comparison.

    I've seen flare guns on boats before and they don't seem *that* sturdy of a device - mostly for emergency use, and not all that heavy. Hopefully, you are just firing 12gauge flares out of that thing and not shotgun shells with 00 Buck or slugs.

    Dunno...

    This guy tried it with the little cheap ones. I'm not sure about the metal ones with a metal insert.


    I wish I had time and place to screw around like that...
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Yep... you would be a darned fool if you were to fire a live 12 gauge (mini or otherwise) in an Orion type flare gun... and a one handed fool at that. Even the metal inserts that reduce the chamber down to say .38 special will fail (and you would have to modify the flare barrel to accept it or mill down the insert). The AFT did a number of tests of these years ago and they all resulted catastrophic failure.

    The metal military flare pistols are much more robust and built to lock up tight (the Orion flare guns have no locking mechanism at all and just stay closed by friction). Even so, I wouldn't use anything above a .410 in one of those either... I think that there are inserts that would allow you to shoot a 12 ga in a 26.5 or 37 mm flare gun, but I believe that turns the flare gun into a destructive device under federal regulations (plus a smooth bore insert would also result in a NFA short barreled shotgun)... either way, I sure wouldn't do it in a 26.5mm flare pistol.

    .410/.45 Colt (rifled), .38, .22 (offset) are all safe and legal in a sound 26.5mm flare pistol. The caveat is by doing it you have manufactured a title 1 firearm. As long as that is legal for you to do, it is safe.
     

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