Here you go, a perfect example, what's the chances.........(answer: pretty good!)
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=110066
Latest From the MSP on Handgun Approvals
- Thread starter Bay Area Arms
- Start date
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Here you go, a perfect example, what's the chances.........(answer: pretty good!)
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=110066
Vile Shadow
...
- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Well, at least this Captain took took the time to do what he did. Gotta give credit where it's due I reckon.
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
Ummm, something is simply not right here.
Let's imagine that there are, in fact, 2,000 applications in the queue.
Let's say that imagine that processing a 77R takes 10 mins. Let's assume that there is more than one employee processing these... why the hell not?
Well 2,000 applications would be about 330 hours of extra work. Which 10 employees could eliminate with one hour a day in about a month. I find it hard to believe that you can't find 10 people at Pikesville with an hour to spare each day for a month.
My Google-Fu found this:
"Office Services Clerk Handgun and Licensing Division
Maryland State Police
Government Agency; 1001-5000 employees; Law Enforcement industry
May 2012 – Present (11 months) Pikesville, MD
I perform background checks on handgun purchasers and handgun registration applicants for the state of Maryland for the Firearms Registration Unit at the Maryland State Police Handgun and Licensing Division. On a daily basis I perform background checks on 35 applicants using the national and statewide NICS, Meters, CJIS, JIS and DJS databases to determine if prospective applicants meet the requirements to purchase a gun in the state of Maryland. In additon to this I also perform several other office support duties such as faxing, printing, searching and filing record and applications when needed"
Hmmm, 35/8 = so we can expect that this model employee manages just 4.5 applications per hour, seriously?
So the CAPT is stating that these "emails" are sucking up an extra 100 man-power hours per week? (or 2.5 employees?)
I call B.S. on all of this! 4.5 Applications/hr is retard slow (and this "clerk" goes to college?!?)
1. The Capt calls the process "manual" and outdated, but cites funding limitations as the reason the "broken" process has not been fixed.
Bull, process improvement can occur without additional funding by streamlining the existing process with current resources. That's just a crock of shit, period.
2. The automation of the process could, and should, happen earlier. There is no funding issue preventing the use of Microsoft office to create a simple spreadsheet or to even manage tasks.
3. If you know the process is broken, fix it, stop crying about funding.
4. If you can't do it in the time allotted, then stamp the ****ing form "NOT DISAPPROVED", fax it back, and move on. If later the person gets flagged, you can go deal with them then.
5. You've heard of email right? Time to move into the 21st century!
6. You have more than 300 employees in Pikesville, have them do one form each for four weeks and the crisis is solved.
7. Working on January's work in March, totally unacceptable. You deserve to be fired if you haven't fixed a broken process by now. Think I am being too hard on MSP, too bad. I am sure that they mean well... however meaning well doesn't excuse incompetence. This problem was well known for quite some time, and they did NOTHING about it.
M
Let's imagine that there are, in fact, 2,000 applications in the queue.
Let's say that imagine that processing a 77R takes 10 mins. Let's assume that there is more than one employee processing these... why the hell not?
Well 2,000 applications would be about 330 hours of extra work. Which 10 employees could eliminate with one hour a day in about a month. I find it hard to believe that you can't find 10 people at Pikesville with an hour to spare each day for a month.
My Google-Fu found this:
"Office Services Clerk Handgun and Licensing Division
Maryland State Police
Government Agency; 1001-5000 employees; Law Enforcement industry
May 2012 – Present (11 months) Pikesville, MD
I perform background checks on handgun purchasers and handgun registration applicants for the state of Maryland for the Firearms Registration Unit at the Maryland State Police Handgun and Licensing Division. On a daily basis I perform background checks on 35 applicants using the national and statewide NICS, Meters, CJIS, JIS and DJS databases to determine if prospective applicants meet the requirements to purchase a gun in the state of Maryland. In additon to this I also perform several other office support duties such as faxing, printing, searching and filing record and applications when needed"
Hmmm, 35/8 = so we can expect that this model employee manages just 4.5 applications per hour, seriously?
So the CAPT is stating that these "emails" are sucking up an extra 100 man-power hours per week? (or 2.5 employees?)
I call B.S. on all of this! 4.5 Applications/hr is retard slow (and this "clerk" goes to college?!?)
1. The Capt calls the process "manual" and outdated, but cites funding limitations as the reason the "broken" process has not been fixed.
Bull, process improvement can occur without additional funding by streamlining the existing process with current resources. That's just a crock of shit, period.
2. The automation of the process could, and should, happen earlier. There is no funding issue preventing the use of Microsoft office to create a simple spreadsheet or to even manage tasks.
3. If you know the process is broken, fix it, stop crying about funding.
4. If you can't do it in the time allotted, then stamp the ****ing form "NOT DISAPPROVED", fax it back, and move on. If later the person gets flagged, you can go deal with them then.
5. You've heard of email right? Time to move into the 21st century!
6. You have more than 300 employees in Pikesville, have them do one form each for four weeks and the crisis is solved.
7. Working on January's work in March, totally unacceptable. You deserve to be fired if you haven't fixed a broken process by now. Think I am being too hard on MSP, too bad. I am sure that they mean well... however meaning well doesn't excuse incompetence. This problem was well known for quite some time, and they did NOTHING about it.
M
Totally agree with you. But that could get this thread locked too, so I'll leave it at that.
kamikazeH20mln
Active Member
Yikes! Considering that you don't have real insight into their paperwork process beyond the form you fill out, and also the politics involved working in government, getting process changes is a bitch unless you have a supportive leadership for the change, especially if it is an ESTABLISHED procedure. Nor does it help that their ass is on the line if an app is marked "NOT DISAPPROVED" and that person does have a disqualifying reason.
BTW from reading that letter, my gov speak translator read that as their fax machine broke down, but they didn't want to admit they lost apps, so please resubmit the lost ones back in.
BTW from reading that letter, my gov speak translator read that as their fax machine broke down, but they didn't want to admit they lost apps, so please resubmit the lost ones back in.
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
Considering that I have 15 years of working in large governmental entities with very particular paperwork requirements, I know that changes can be made, especially if the Capt in charge wanted to make those changes.
Their ass is NOT on the line for marking an application "NOT DISAPPROVED", has there EVER been a case where the state has made a mistake on a firearm application and the state was held liable? My bet is probably not. They could start with a NICS check to prescreen each application, then make it not-disapproved very quickly... especially in the cases of people who already own multiple firearms. You can clear queues quickly by using a little bit of brain power. Not disapproving persons who have multiple past purchases and pass a current NICS check is a quick way to put the resources where they are really needed.
The bottom line is that the state is acting irresponsibly and would be equally liable for denying someone the ability to defend themselves just as much as they would be liable for allowing a prohibited person to purchase a firearm.
They need to get their act together, 45+ day waits for approval is unacceptable, they need to find a solution. There is NO reasonable excuse for this, None. You're welcome to give them a pass, but I could get residency in another state more quickly than I could get Maryland to process their ******** paperwork.
Mark
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
Why do you think they stamp them NOT DISAPPROVED instead of APPROVED?
Hint: It is the same reason courts find people NOT GUILTY instead of INNOCENT.
It is a non-affirmative response and gives them room to wiggle out of making an error.
Hint: It is the same reason courts find people NOT GUILTY instead of INNOCENT.
It is a non-affirmative response and gives them room to wiggle out of making an error.
JPG
Ultimate Member
What is the process specifically? I would think it wouldn't be difficult to check someone out. From the application they have:
1. Address
2. Driver license number
3. Social Security number
As far as I know they have all this in a system, because when I get pulled over by the police they check "the system" to see if I have any outstanding warrants, etc and then send me on the way - 15 minutes tops.
1. Address
2. Driver license number
3. Social Security number
As far as I know they have all this in a system, because when I get pulled over by the police they check "the system" to see if I have any outstanding warrants, etc and then send me on the way - 15 minutes tops.
2kxj
I'm your huckleberry
Got stopped the other day for having a brake light out. Trooper wrote me a repair order. He had been rather demanding from the start and he caught me at the wrong time. He hands me the order and says "10 days, to get this unsafe car fixed" to which I replied "more like 45 days if I follow MSP time" He wasn't amused but knew exactly what I was talking about
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
Not really. Say 450 new apps per day for nice round numbers. They would need 100 man hours to do that. 100/8hr shift=12.5 people - we'll say 13(to make up for frequent donut breaks
). There are approx 2500 MSP employees. I think they can probably find some help out of all of those employees. That would only be 1/2 or 1 percent of their workforce 2500x.005=12.5.Just an FYI - that would be about $346 per person per day. The math - 450apps x $10 = $4500/13 people = $346
So tell me why they don't have the $ - do troopers make $43/hr?
JPG
Ultimate Member
It takes less than 2 minutes to do an electronic check on someone. The 15 minutes is walking back and forth between cars and calling in the information to the control center who enters the info and calls back to the officer who gives you the good to go.
15 minutes was from wheel stop to wheel go.
Joe Blow
Joe Blow
Some of yall folks need to chill the hell out. I'm in the same boat waiting for my paperwork but crying about it don't do squat. At least the Capt. tried to answer in what seems to be a decent response to people whining about their app. If you buy your stuff before August you should be fine. Do you have a firearm right now, which the majority probably does, then go shoot that one.
Alrighty. Just about none of that makes sense. Ohhhh,...... where to start...
1) Just because you are in the "same boat" doesn't mean others can be pissed about this.
2) The response to people asking about their apps was,.... DON'T ASK. I fail to see how that's a decent response.
3) What if someone didn't have a firearm right now? Is it okay that they are being denied the right for over a month? Did everyone start out owning multiple firearms, or, did we ALL start somewhere?
The email from the MSP is totally lame, easily picked apart and should be viewed through the filter of they are generally full of shit when it comes to the licensing division.
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
That is the same line of thinking that got us the unconstitutional sobriety checkpoints. You know, 'we're doing it to everybody' and 'you have the option not to go through it' lines of reasoning(?).
Come back and re-post this in
Joe Blow
Joe Blow
I have had to call the licensing divisions on several occasions and the folks there have always been helpful to me. And maybe if you realize that they are still accepting and processing a ton of apps then you would realize they are swamped with no funding to that dept from Annapolis. Send your whining email to the Gov. Then maybe everybody else and me can get our sh. Without interruptions I can get work done, but as soon as the baby cries you got to cuddle her.
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
Taking care of [the baby] is their work.
tomgreco
Ammo addict
After my third day of roaming the halls in Annapolis, I whole heartily agree. Ultimately it is our fault, but something we can correct at the ballot box soon.
2kxj
I'm your huckleberry
yeah, well the whole state needs to stop casting ballots based on "oo he is super cute" and "he sings in a band" Tis the same on the federal level...
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