M57 shoots super low

lazarus · Jun 15, 2018

My first time shooting it I was shooting at something like 7yds and it seemed a couple of inches low. Well I finally got it back to the range it it was 6-8” low at 12yds and really far left. I got the left POI straightened out.

What’s the deal with shooting super low? It seems to be shooting really flat, as a hold at the top of the target and it would hit basically dead even at 12yds and 25yds.

I’ve never used it before, but I looked it up and it seems like this could be a frame hold? Rather than a level hold or a 6 o’clock hold (I prefer a 6 o’clock). It might still be a couple of inches low for a proper frame hold, but that at least seems closer to what is appropriate. On a 16” target I was holding 6 o’clock on the top of the lines on the target at 12 and 25yds and it was shooting +/-1” of the bullseye.

I realize this is a “shoot people at close range” comblock gun, but if possible I’d either like to figure out if it is the sight picture I need to adjust for, or if I need to break out my file. may still need to take it down a little. I need to look up how much that would be to pull up the POI. I’d assume not a ton for ~6-7” of sight radius

lee2 · Jun 15, 2018

Tokarev TT33 sights are zeroed for 25 meters.
you can file the front sight to bring up the point of aim.

Cruacious · Jun 15, 2018

We're you using commercial or surplus ammo? Surplus tends to run hotter and shoots higher. That, and the sights are indeed zeroed at 25 meters.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 15, 2018

I'm sure its a semantics thing , but what is "frame hold" ?

GuitarmanNick · Jun 15, 2018

Before you start filing on the sight, you may want to be certain that you are not pulling the shots low in anticipation of noise or recoil. This may especially be a concern with a gun that you have not fired before.

Practice dry firing with some snap caps until you get comfortable with it and then try shooting it again.

John from MD · Jun 15, 2018

Some of these have pretty heavy triggers. I would rule that out before filing also.

GuitarmanNick · Jun 15, 2018

^^^^^ What John said too!

lazarus · Jun 15, 2018

I am pretty sure it isn’t trigger or flinch. I shoot about 20rnds through it using a rest and same deal, super low unless I held at the top of the target.

Frame hold http://www.odcmp.org/0907/usamu_sightpicture.asp

Commercial ammo, PPU to be exact, which supposedly chronos around a real 1380-1400FPS, which is reasonably slower than 1600FPS of good Surplus, but at 12yds that shouldn’t be enough difference to drop 6-8”. Maybe like 1-2” lower.

I’ll run it at the range one more time and play around with holes and what not before I break out the file on a follow on visit. I also have some S&B and Winchester white box, both of which are supposed to be loaded to an actual 1480 or so FPS. See if that makes a reasonable difference.

John from MD · Jun 15, 2018

If nothing else, file the front sight. As I recall from the few Toks I had, those sights are pretty proud anyway. I would bring the front down to a 25 yard zero and then lower back and front to drop the profile down to something reasonable. Us the PPU ammo as that is what is most available now.

lee2 · Jun 18, 2018

John from MD said:
If nothing else, file the front sight. As I recall from the few Toks I had, those sights are pretty proud anyway. I would bring the front down to a 25 yard zero and then lower back and front to drop the profile down to something reasonable. Us the PPU ammo as that is what is most available now.

why lower the back? that would make it worse.

John from MD · Jun 18, 2018

Not if you work both sights together. Tok sights are pretty high at both ends. By bringing them both down, you bring the sights closer to the bore.

Abulg1972 · Jun 18, 2018

John from MD said:
Not if you work both sights together. Tok sights are pretty high at both ends. By bringing them both down, you bring the sights closer to the bore.

Filing sights is a good way to ruin a collectible gun.

John from MD · Jun 19, 2018

M57 isn't much of a collectable as it is a shooter.

lazarus · Jun 19, 2018

John from MD said:
M57 isn't much of a collectable as it is a shooter.

Yeah that’s the only thing that makes me torn. It might not be much of a collectible, but mine is in near new condition. Though I don’t think I am going to destroy it by taking down the front sight a little bit and rebluing it

lazarus · Jun 19, 2018

I’ll have to break out my caliber and take exact measurements, but it looks like there is enough correction room. When I input .18” front sight height, 7” sight radius and 12yd distance with 8” low I got .05” front sight height. Which is almost non-existent front sight.

When I input .25” front sight height I got .12” high front sight. I don’t mind it being slightly low, as actually shooting it at something 2 legged it’s going to still hit in something painful even if it is a foot low if they are standing, windage would be much more important. But I’d like to get it closer.

And it is also possible I am remembering wrong and it was really only like 6” low at 12yds.

Doing some poking around on google, it looks like I am not the only one who got one that shots way low and left.

BeoBill · Jun 19, 2018

John from MD said:
Not if you work both sights together. Tok sights are pretty high at both ends. By bringing them both down, you bring the sights closer to the bore.

Lee is right; iron optics don't work like that. Granted, they are VERY coarse.

Also, before you go fiddling with the sights field strip the gun and make sure there's no old cosmo impinging on the barrel (like in the lugs). And make sure the barrel is firm in the barrel bushing.

BTW, I replaced the barrel in mine and that helped improve accuracy.

lazarus · Jun 19, 2018

BeoBill said:
Lee is right; iron optics don't work like that. Granted, they are VERY coarse.

Also, before you go fiddling with the sights field strip the gun and make sure there's no old cosmo impinging on the barrel (like in the lugs). And make sure the barrel is firm in the barrel bushing.

BTW, I replaced the barrel in mine and that helped improve accuracy.

I’ll double check that, thanks. Accuracy seems relatively good. Maybe 3 inches at 12yds off hand. That’s about as good as I can do right now. I certainly need to improve my technique.

I am pretty sure it is tight in the barrel bushing. It is well cleaned of cosmoline. It was rather filthy with the stuff before.

lazarus · Jun 20, 2018

With the recoil spring and guide rod out, the barrel is a little loose in the bushing, but with the guide rod and spring in, it is nice and tight.

I certainly won’t touch the sight until I’ve shot it again. And it may just be I can adjust my sight picture so that the base of the sight is what fills the rear notch. That isn’t natural on any other pistol I’ve tried and sure would be odd, but strangely on the M57 the shape of the base and rear notch actually doesn’t make it that hard to quickly line it up like that. That might be all I need to do to get it to the point of impact I want. If so I’ll probably leave it alone and just remember to adjust for that when using it.

Not like this is my bump in the night gun or anything like that. It’s a fun toy that is pretty to look at (okay, I think it is pretty. I love that commie deep purple bluing).

BeoBill · Jun 20, 2018

lazarus said:
With the recoil spring and guide rod out, the barrel is a little loose in the bushing, but with the guide rod and spring in, it is nice and tight.

I certainly won’t touch the sight until I’ve shot it again. And it may just be I can adjust my sight picture so that the base of the sight is what fills the rear notch. That isn’t natural on any other pistol I’ve tried and sure would be odd, but strangely on the M57 the shape of the base and rear notch actually doesn’t make it that hard to quickly line it up like that. That might be all I need to do to get it to the point of impact I want. If so I’ll probably leave it alone and just remember to adjust for that when using it.

Not like this is my bump in the night gun or anything like that. It’s a fun toy that is pretty to look at (okay, I think it is pretty. I love that commie deep purple bluing).

I think you may have just solved it. Please let us know.

lazarus · Jun 20, 2018

Will do. Though it’ll probably be awhile. I’ve got a long list of guns I need to take to the range next. My new to me SKS. I want to get my Garand back now that I’ve got the gas tube peened and tightened properly. I need to replace the front sight on my M-1 carbine and re-zero that with a file (it shoots 8” high at 100yds with the rear sight set to 100).

Oh and try out the new 3x magnifier I got for my 16” AR and TRS-25 combo. And some quality time with my Glock 17.

All that is probably two separate range trips before I’ll get around to my M57 again

M57 shoots super low

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