SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

hooligan82 · Mar 29, 2012

I figured that may have been brought up in response to question 3 Judge Legg wanted to discuss during the teleconference. This whole process is very foreign to me, and I'm probably reading too far into things.

Dead Eye · Mar 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
Your chances (and mine) are zero. Stay relates back to the March 5, date of the order. Once the stay is lifted (if it is), then we get processed without regard to 5ii.

Not being a lawyer, it has no bearing on the fact that two different courts rule in two different ways over the same issue?

esqappellate · Mar 30, 2012

Dead Eye said:
Not being a lawyer, it has no bearing on the fact that two different courts rule in two different ways over the same issue?

Lord knows that judges disagree all the time. Such is the nature of the law. But not generally on the nature of a stay. That is pretty much common ground.

eruby · Mar 30, 2012

X-Factor said:
I'm so lost. Tried to catch up, too, but just got confused. Did something happen today?

krucam said:
Pg 390...

X-Factor said:
I count 197...

When you're logged on to MDS, there are a lot less pages in a thread than when you look at the thread while not logged on.

esqappellate, thanks very much for always making things crystal clear (even if it's not always what we want to hear). :thumbsup:

Every time I read anything from Gansler & Co., I'm reminded of Joe Pesci's line in My Cousin Vinnie; "Everything that guy just said is bulsh%t."

Inigoes · Mar 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
The order is not going to change, it is the product of the Thursday teleconference and the parties are merely implementing what the judge told them to do. Even apart from that, it is completely unlikely that the court will address pending applications which are not before him. That is what the stay is about - the state gets to sit on these applications.

Going by the hand written number in the lower left hand corner of the checks. ~400 applications have been submitted thus far (purely speculation on my part).

PJDiesel · Mar 30, 2012

Inigoes said:
Going by the hand written number in the lower left hand corner of the checks. ~400 applications have been submitted thus far (purely speculation on my part).

It may be, but there are a few of us who had "6X,XXX" numbers on their checks, so.....

Inigoes · Mar 30, 2012

PJDiesel said:
It may be, but there are a few of us who had "6X,XXX" numbers on their checks, so.....

Was that pre-ruling 3/5/2012 or post?

swinokur · Mar 30, 2012

Here's a better way to figure out what the number means

Pushrod · Mar 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
The order is not going to change, it is the product of the Thursday teleconference and the parties are merely implementing what the judge told them to do. Even apart from that, it is completely unlikely that the court will address pending applications which are not before him. That is what the stay is about - the state gets to sit on these applications.

If a stay (even temporary) is in effect, then doesn't that mean the 5(ii) is still in effect and any application before the State Police can be denied under "good and substantial" reasoning?

PJDiesel · Mar 30, 2012

Inigoes said:
Was that pre-ruling 3/5/2012 or post?

Post, but the kicker may be that I had applied (obviously denied) about 8 years ago.

Thinking maybe they used my original number?

Inigoes · Mar 30, 2012

PJDiesel said:
Post, but the kicker may be that I had applied (obviously denied) about 8 years ago.

Thinking maybe they used my original number?

That would be a safe assumption...

INMY01TA · Mar 30, 2012

Pushrod said:
If a stay (even temporary) is in effect, then doesn't that mean the 5(ii) is still in effect and any application before the State Police can be denied under "good and substantial" reasoning?

+1. Will they be sitting on our apps or will we all have to reapply again?

Hotrod Diesel · Mar 30, 2012

I believe its just bad handwriting. It was very hard for me to determine my numbers...

JMangle · Mar 30, 2012

INMY01TA said:
+1. Will they be sitting on our apps or will we all have to reapply again?

I'm hoping that they are just sitting on them. *Hoping*

I'm def with esq -- if they deny mine, I'll try to keep it alive by appealing. Maybe I'll be the next Woollard, lol.

dblas · Mar 30, 2012

Pushrod said:
If a stay (even temporary) is in effect, then doesn't that mean the 5(ii) is still in effect and any application before the State Police can be denied under "good and substantial" reasoning?

INMY01TA said:
+1. Will they be sitting on our apps or will we all have to reapply again?

As has been stated many times before, the State would be foolish to deny any applications while the appeal process is ongoing. The likely action is that the State will sit on the applications pending the outcome of the stay and the appeal.

esqappellate · Mar 30, 2012

Pushrod said:
If a stay (even temporary) is in effect, then doesn't that mean the 5(ii) is still in effect and any application before the State Police can be denied under "good and substantial" reasoning?

Yes, if the stay is in effect, the state *can* deny the apps. But it more likely that the state will just sit on the appls until at least the stay motions are ruled on. That's *not* hardwired. It is just what they have been doing and it is in the state's own interest to do so.

esqappellate · Mar 30, 2012

eruby said:
esqappellate, thanks very much for always making things crystal clear (even if it's not always what we want to hear).

Every time I read anything from Gansler & Co., I'm reminded of Joe Pesci's line in My Cousin Vinnie; "Everything that guy just said is bulsh%t."

I am just trying to help folks understand a process that is far from easy to understand. I get it cuz I have been a federal court litigator for 37 years.

As to Vinnie, I *love* that line..

Smagel · Mar 30, 2012

So, nothing to expect here until May 24 at earliest...about two months of cooling heels.

esqappellate · Mar 30, 2012

Smagel said:
So, nothing to expect here until May 24 at earliest...about two months of cooling heels.

Yup. And of course May 24 is just the earliest possible date. Got to give the Judge time to digest what is filed on May 23 and to write something. My guess (and it only a guess) is that he will act promptly, as the appeal will, by that time, be well underway.

Dead Eye · Mar 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
Lord knows that judges disagree all the time. Such is the nature of the law. But not generally on the nature of a stay. That is pretty much common ground.

Please pardon me for my density, and maybe there is no difference in this issue, but perhaps I can clarify as I was getting a hint that these applications might be processed in several ways....

1. You applied "pre Woollard" and as such, the decision is what it is because that was the law at the time, so if you want a permit you will have to reapply.

2. You applied during Woollard, but was denied, but now Woollard has ruled your denial "unconstitutional", for which, throws a cloud over the issue. These apps and cases are being culled out to determine how to deal with independently, since you have already been ruled on you are in essence in the same boat as Mr. Woollard.

3. You applied recently, for which, you are caught in the "stay" and have to wait until May 24th, or thereafter.

I am in category 2. Most people here are in category 3, for which I understand. Depending on who I talk to, knowledgeable citizens and lawyers alike, I get differeing answers as to the likely outcome. I was asking specifically your take on option 2, please, if that makes sense. Thanks.

SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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