Panic Buying HBARS?

Occam · Feb 26, 2019

Racer Doug14 said:
As was pointed out in a video I posted. The grandfathering clause, if offered, is a trap. These POS libs will give nothing and take everything. They can not make you a felon for owning something that was legal. Pass the law as written and have it struck down as unlawful per the MD constitution. Ex post facto.

It's not an ex post facto law, as has been amply discussed a thousand times. The law as written bans possession of certain items past a certain date in the future.

Yes, the generous offer to grandfather early purchases past that future date is a completely disingenuous move that wouldn't distract an infant from the fact that future acquisitions would be banned. But it can't be struck down on ex post facto. Nor does it need to be. It's in SCOTUS jeopardy on several other fronts that actually have some merit and prospects of success. Patience is what we need, and cash is what our litigating advocates need. Sucks, I know.

shmuel2004 · Feb 26, 2019

Racer Doug14 said:
As was pointed out in a video I posted. The grandfathering clause, if offered, is a trap. These POS libs will give nothing and take everything. They can not make you a felon for owning something that was legal. Pass the law as written and have it struck down as unlawful per the MD constitution. Ex post facto.

That's a good point. I was worried about conceding to the underlying ban.

Abulg1972 · Feb 26, 2019

Racer Doug14 said:
As was pointed out in a video I posted. The grandfathering clause, if offered, is a trap. These POS libs will give nothing and take everything. They can not make you a felon for owning something that was legal. Pass the law as written and have it struck down as unlawful per the MD constitution. Ex post facto.

No one can or should hang their hat on any prohibition against an ex post facto law. I'll just remind you that the federal district court that heard the bump stock ban didn't really care too much about whether the State was prohibiting possession of something that was theretofore lawful to possess.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Feb 26, 2019

RuralRifleGuy said:
Ivey introduced an amendment that would grandfather in existing HBARs bought between 2013 and 2019.

That's the "compromise" they're willing to do. They still get what they want otherwise. It's a typical anti-gun tactic...ask for the moon, sun and stars and then become "reasonable" and be willing to take the moon, sun and only a few stars. We still lose.

Racer Doug14 · Feb 26, 2019

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
That's the "compromise" they're willing to do. They still get what they want otherwise. It's a typical anti-gun tactic...ask for the moon, sun and stars and then become "reasonable" and be willing to take the moon, sun and only a few stars. We still lose.

Hence my post. Was the original bill as written, to make possession of post 10/2013 "hbar" rifles illegal? What about piston rifles next?

Hit and Run · Feb 26, 2019

Abulg1972 said:
On what basis did you conclude that they will either kill the bill or include a grandfather clause for HBARs? Was that something that was announced?

Sponsor said he amended bill to grandfather HBAR configured ARs bought since 2013. Some assume legislation will pass that way.

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Hit and Run · Feb 26, 2019

shmuel2004 said:
One of our members who stayed till the end said that the delegate who sponsored the the hbar bill agreed to add a grandfather clause.

Can anyone else confirm?

Bit groggy at 2AM time frame when this bill came up (last one), but that is what Bill's sponsor said. He had already offered that Ammendment.

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babalou · Feb 26, 2019

it was offered. Then next time cut more of the cake until we have nothing, except the candles. It should not pass in any form..

bitterkenny · Feb 26, 2019

So three take-aways from Delegate Ivey's sponsorship testimony: 1) The left is emboldened by FSA2013 being upheld by the 4th Circuit and not being pickup by SOCTUS. 2) He's offering the grandfathering amendment to help it pass (actually said Maryland has a tradition of grandfathering...) 3) He actually said the bill builds upon FSA2013 and said Maryland should be like California and New Jersey.

So you can panic buy H-BARs all you want, but it's pretty clear the GA is not going to stop there.

fidelity · Feb 26, 2019

RuralRifleGuy said:
Ivey introduced an amendment that would grandfather in existing HBARs bought between 2013 and 2019. He was hoping to avoid people testifying because they could keep what they have. Then he proved just how little he knows when he couldn’t answer what AR stood for when asked by Delegate Arikan.

ETA: though we all know he badly wanted to say assault rifle.

People should watch the last two hours of testimony when they have time. Some of it was riveting.

Of any of the anti bills that I saw presented, this one faired the worst. No support in the chamber. Not even the sponsor's attempt at a life line to himself by saying he'd support removing the backban clause was taken seriously. It was a wood shed beating.

When it was over, I heard McCoy's words in my ear, "it's dead, Jim".

Yes, it's not over until it's over, but my guess is that it doesn't move out of committee.

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Doobie · Feb 26, 2019

If we see this, then what makes us think that it’s going to stop? Like I said several years ago, we’ll continue to lose rights and our bank accounts trying to defend our rights and will have nothing to show for it. The line in the sand isn’t in front of and between us and them...it’s behind them and they’re pushing towards the edge of the cliff. People in Maryland have 3 options:
-Continue to put up with the bs and have rights taken
-Make a stand against them
- Or leave.
I’m not a native of Maryland, so I choose to leave as soon as I can. I’ll continue to donate money, spread the word, and submit opinions and testimonies while I’m here, but Maryland is a lost cause. Look at California and New York...MD will be no different no matter how much we protest at rallies and donate money. The courts are a joke.
Everyone else in MD will either choose option A or C because nobody is willing to pick option B...it’s not in our nature and blood as law abiding citizens.

dist1646 · Feb 26, 2019

Hit and Run said:
Sponsor said he offered an amendment to the bill to grandfather HBAR configured ARs bought since 2013. Some assume legislation will pass that way.

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FIFY. Nothing but attempts to sell BS outside of Southern States Co OP.
Give them nothing, agree to nothing. They always come back for more!
Their treachery is beyond belief!

outrider58 · Feb 26, 2019

I don't own an Hbar. Should I go buy one?

Bob A · Feb 26, 2019

The only thing that will stop the constant incrementalism is some solid stuff coming from SCOTUS.

Gerrymandering could return enough Republicans to office to break the veto-proof supermajority. Hogan will still be in office, so he could, theoretically, veto the more egregious bills. Whether he will is of course problematic. But certainly he's the only hope for the next decade. There's zero chance of another Republican following Hogan, which closes the door on any resistance toward the infringers.

Without definitive 2A decisions from SCOTUS, I can see no future for me in MD if the gerrymandering doesn't fix the GA.

Defense Rifle · Feb 26, 2019

shmuel2004 said:
So, it looks like the hbar ban will not pass unless it has a grandfather clause. Is that correct?

Is it time to start buying up all the hbars? I couldn't find any complete hbar uppers online. Has the panic buying already started?

Can a I get grandfathered if I just buy an hbar barrel and purchase the rest of the build later? What if I already have an upper and I just purchase a barrel?

The first part of your post... that's not true at all. You do realize the Democrats have supermajorities in both House and Senate, and many vehemently anti-gun politicians.

Even if Hogan vetoes the bill, they can easily override his veto with 2/3rds majority vote in the MD Senate.

So the bill can very likely still pass, with or without a grandfather clause for HBars. It is the Democrats decision, politically they can pass whatever they want.

Defense Rifle · Feb 26, 2019

Bob A said:
The only thing that will stop the constant incrementalism is some solid...

Without definitive 2A decisions from SCOTUS, I can see no future for me in MD if the gerrymandering doesn't fix the GA.

This is a point that isn't being discussed. These types of bills have caused the already small number of Maryland Republican voters and gun owners to leave the state, myself included.

Even a few of my friends in Maryland have recently told me about leaving Maryland either for PA, VA, or elsewhere.

People need to realize the impact this has on the long term. You have no chance of having gun rights in a state when the number of pro-gun people keep leaving month after month and year after year.

It's a vicious trend. Even if SCOTUS provides some relief you've already have too many pro-2A people who left Maryland. The MGA will find other creative ways to restrict guns. I really do hope SCOTUS weighs in but they would have to be wide sweeping rulings on multiple gun restrictions.

dist1646 · Feb 26, 2019

As I said to Sheriff Jenkins while he was sitting next to me in the lobby, " They don't want us to have rifles, pistols or shotguns, seems to me that they are pushing us to buy cannon.".

IDFInfantry · Feb 26, 2019

outrider58 said:
I don't own an Hbar. Should I go buy one?

What kind of question is this? I thought every red blooded American owned one! :lol:

Being it's the most popular rifle in America today. I'd say No! Buy two!

babalou · Feb 26, 2019

Need to make a stand here

Defense Rifle said:
This is a point that isn't being discussed. These types of bills have caused the already small number of Maryland Republican voters and gun owners to leave the state, myself included.

Even a few of my friends in Maryland have recently told me about leaving Maryland either for PA, VA, or elsewhere.

People need to realize the impact this has on the long term. You have no chance of having gun rights in a state when the number of pro-gun people keep leaving month after month and year after year.

It's a vicious trend. Even if SCOTUS provides some relief you've already have too many pro-2A people who left Maryland. The MGA will find other creative ways to restrict guns. I really do hope SCOTUS weighs in but they would have to be wide sweeping rulings on multiple gun restrictions.

Like in other threads, the horde is slowing moving to supposed red states to make them purple.

I did have a question. Suppose that gubbmint was not here, would most of the Dem votes not be here due all the Fed jobscand contractors? Perhaps VA would be more red and MD still blue but way less so

Bob A · Feb 26, 2019

outrider58 said:
I don't own an Hbar. Should I go buy one?

I've got so many of these damn ARs already that I can't even launch the boat without shipping water. But if they ban them, I will buy yet another EBR.

Panic Buying HBARS?

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