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Old March 26th, 2020, 08:18 AM #1
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Hot 9mm Handloads for Carbine use?

Hi-
I just built a 9mm AR Carbine with a 16" barrel. Have some NATO Factory loads for it and some +P factory loads as well. I dont own any 9mm handguns. Looking at handloading for it, which im fairly new to. So, right now mainly focused on handloading 9mm ammo optimized for a carbine with a 16" barrel. Looking to either reload 115 grain or 124 grain RN FMJ Ball. Im running a pretty heavy buffer and spring. Got a ramped bolt and anti-rotational pins as well.

Has anybody used a slower burning rifle powder in the 9mm for carbine use to fully utilize a 16" barrel? Can 9mm be loaded up to .38 Super power or is that too much pressure?

Again mainly focused on loading the 9mm for a 16" carbine not for a handgun. Is there any load data out there that approximates the military loads for the UZI or MP5 (SMG load)?
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Old March 26th, 2020, 09:08 AM #2
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https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/9mm-L...a-bullets/8273
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Old March 26th, 2020, 09:32 AM #3
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Rifle and pistol powders are totally different. Take a look at a burn rate chart. I started handloading way back before there was internet. I would not trust anybody’s load data on any open forum. Invest in some handloading books and read.
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Old March 26th, 2020, 10:12 AM #4
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https://youtu.be/bEkSPidQpdA

Not sure how to embed the video. JP rifles has a nice explanation of how to pick a powder and loads.
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Old March 26th, 2020, 11:07 AM #5
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Old March 26th, 2020, 12:37 PM #6
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https://youtu.be/bEkSPidQpdA

Not sure how to embed the video. JP rifles has a nice explanation of how to pick a powder and loads.
Her ya go...
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Old March 26th, 2020, 01:18 PM #7
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Besides enough checks to make sure you don't get squibs, much of it comes down to what you want the load to do vs the range of loads you tuned for. For my competition PCC, I use a light load if CFE pistol under a 124gr plated for about 1100fps from a 16", clean and soft shootin, reliable and soft recoiling with a standard M4 buffer spring and 5.5oz buffer. My defensive 7" pistol build has a 7oz buffer and 308 spring with QC10 barrel to be reliable with HP ammo, cycles my comp loads, but still reliable with defensive 124-147 and subsonics with a suppressor. Not sure there is value in a hot load, but would probably go with a 147gr XTP over power pistol if I wanted the most power, then see how it functions with a heavy buffer/spring
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Old March 26th, 2020, 04:54 PM #8
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Very oversimplified , but look to the relatively slower powders listed under the PISTOL data . Then confirm reliability in your rifle .

And you will need a chrono, if certain velocity ranges are a criteria .

Statement #1 - There are significant differences between different loads of similar bullet weight , even if they are similar from typical " pistol lengths .

Statement #2 - It is up to you to decide if #1 is meaningful to You .

Statement # 3 - IF #2 is yes , you need to consider how the specific Bullet performs at an increased velocity .
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Old March 26th, 2020, 05:06 PM #9
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Even with factory rounds you will notice increased viscosity from a carbine compared to a pistol.
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Old March 26th, 2020, 06:05 PM #10
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First, welcome to the fun that is shooting a submachine gun or PCC.

Second, I do not suggest attempting .38 Super performance in the 9mm. There is something that is often referred to as 9 Major but that is best left to purpose built firearms (usually race type handguns) in the Open division (they have locking operating systems, where you are running a blowback based on your reference to ramped bolt). Use of these loads will prematurely fail parts in your weapon and, in many cases, result in brass that is unsafe for further reloading.

Third, IME the NATO countries tend to run standard 9x19mm NATO loads in their SMGs. The exceptions would be some of the arctic warfare ammo which, to my understanding, was developed for use at extreme cold temperatures in Sterlings. The Israelis are often cited as an example of a country that likes to load up hot 9mm. This partially true. They DO NOT care about reloading their brass and thus worry only about safety and reliability of the firearm. The majority of Israeli ammo that I have shot has been full power (NATO spec) 9x19mm. There was (and probably still is) ammunition, loaded in Israel, that was extremely unsafe for use in just about any handgun and even dangerous in some submachine guns. It was specific to use in the UZI. Some were, supposedly, 115gr. Those that I have actually seen and used were 158gr. The tips were blue for ease of identification and the heavies were moving at or slightly faster than 147 +P from other manufacturers. I have loaded 160gr hardcast sized to .356 up to just short of 1100fps in an UZI but I would not consider doing that in most SMGs, especially those that run closed bolt. Eventually, I realized this was a stupid idea as I had to be very careful not to let that ammo get into other guns or the hands of others. Without going into all the design features of the UZI, I will just say that in an UZI one can fire 9x19 proof loads without breaking it. In the USA, a lot of manufacturers load 9 relatively lightly and designate as +P the loads that meet full pressure NATO/CIP specs. This is a source of some confusion as many CIP manufacturers do not designate their loads +P though they actually are by US SAAMI standards.

DO NOT fire +P+ rated ammo in your PCC. This stuff is, fortunately for most, uncommon on the market. One I see regularly sold at gun shows (in almost every case with no posted warning) is Hirtenberger L7A1. This stuff breaks guns that it was never intended to be fired in. I have seen broken berettas, brownings, etc. as a result of some dolt trying to "maximize" their 9mm firearm. They are just stupid. Those I retain some sympathy for are the trusting but uninformed souls who bought this hot loaded ammo from someone not knowing what it was.

If you wish to load outside of published data, that is your privilege. I suggest starting within published book data and then moving up if you so desire. Powders that I have used for longer barrel loads (usually with heavier bullets than you are talking about, though) are Blue Dot, 800X, power pistol.
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