Mikhail Kalashnikov Dies at 94

i myself do get quite tired of seeing the whole "he just copied the stg" argument.

as said above, they are very different weapons...if anything the AR design copied the STG more than the AK did.

both the AR and STG have the same safe design, ejection port covers, 2 piece 2 pin receivers, and straight in push button release mag designs. the only thing that the AK and STG have in common is being stamped steel and being piston driven...which nearly all semi auto firearms are piston driven so that is really nothing special...which even the first AKs were actually milled receivers rather than stamped steel so that almost goes out the window as well.

the most similar firearms these days to the STG are HKs designs such as the MP5 and HK 33 rifle (and all variations there of).

The AK is not an exact copy of the STG44; the STG44 was too complex and expensive for Soviet industry to produce. The basic layout is copied, the ammo is copied fairly closely, the gas system is long stroke piston on both, but the AK bolt is from the M1 carbine, trigger assembly is from the M1 Garand, the multi-strand wrapped spring is from the MG42. The selector on the AK is different only to make it easier to build; Schmeisser had to change it to make it simpler for primitive Soviet factories to produce. The dust cover and hinges were also dropped for ease of production.

Mikhail always denied that Hugo Schmeisser had any involvement with the AK47, until 2009, when he was forced to admit that Schmeisser "assisted" with the design. Hugo Schmieisser, Werner Gruner (designer of the MG42) and other German weapons experts were kidnapped from Germany in 1945 and relocated to Mikhail's design lab, where they were forced to work designing the AK47, since the Soviets apparently couldn't design it on their own.

They had to dumb down the STG to make it very simple and easy for peasants and goat herders to use, but it didn't need to be very accurate since it was just for spray and pray; well, not the praying part since communists are devout atheists. That is what makes it perfect for conscripts, terrorists, goat herders and rice paddy farmers. That's why it's the favored weapon of the Soviets, the Baader-Meinhof gang, the RAF, the SLA, Ruf-Pufs and FARC, and the backward third world nations that use it today.

Mikhail never really designed much else aside from derivations of Schmeisser's and Gruner's basic design. He obviously wasn't much of a designer, just a suck-up party apparatchik who was lucky to be in the right place at the right time to "guide" the development of kidnapped Germans.

And, of course, the AK47 was never really used by any truly professional military, the way the M16 was and still is. The AK47 is the Hi-point of the rifle world, cheap, simple and easy to use, great for doing "mag dumps" equipping primitive militias, or killing civilians, but not a weapon for highly-trained modern soldiers. Even when it comes to sport, there are many, many different varieties of rifle competitions nowadays, some where you commonly see AR's, some with Remington 700's, some with Winchester 92's, or Sharps carbines, or muzzle loaders. But there are none where you see people using AK47's, or the semi- equivalent.

lmfao the BS and troll level of that post is insane, good job.

Nemesis said:

lmfao the BS and troll level of that post is insane, good job.

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Am i the only one who isnt sure if he's serious or not? Haha

Thanks for providing opinions only. As long as you can't find any untruth in a post, I guess there's not a lot more you really could offer. Well, there's always emoticons.

Indiana Jones said:

Am i the only one who isnt sure if he's serious or not? Haha

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lol...ive had my fair share of "debates" with this a$$hat...hes just a troll

on a side note...those poor nazis getting kidnapped lol

Sure, Schmeisser and Gruner might have been National Socialist Party members; I'm not positive one way or the other, and of course you had never heard of them before being schooled on the matter a while back. But they were still civilians kidnapped by Soviet socialists to do the work that clowns such as Mikhail apparently couldn't do on their own.

As long as you've still nothing but opinions to offer, what, in your opinion, is the reason Mikhail denied for 40 years that Schmeisser had anything to do with designing the AK? Why was it not until 2009, when he was pinned down on the matter and forced to admit that yes, Schmeisser "assisted" (ha ha) in the design?

In your opinion, was Schmeisser, a renowned designer of automatic weapons, even before WWI (which began in 1914) and the designer of the STG 44, and Gruner, (developer of the MG42, a truly innovative weapon) the brains behind a weapon obviously patterned after the Stg44, or do you believe the "official" (ha ha) Soviet story? I see you still have no evidence to contradict any of the facts I've presented, so share some more of your feelings.

where is your proof for all of your claims? its real easy to sit behind a screen and type away saying whatever you want...back it up...til you can do that, youre just a troll...

kiriyama9000 said:

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I just spent the last 10 mins being mesmerized by this.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bw...onepage&q=Kalashnikov hugo schmeisser&f=false

There's a book on Mikhail, has him posing in front of a pic of Comrade Lenin. Directly above that tableau is a quote about Schmeisser being conscripted and sent as forced labor to work on the AK47 as forced labor.

Go ahead and google anything you don't believe; the facts I've posted are common knowledge. I don't see why you wouldn't have just done that already; it certainly isn't difficult.

its not my responsibility to prove your points, its yours lol...
you have yet to actually prove anything of any significance, but hey, keep on trying bud lol

Kinbote said:

Sure, Schmeisser and Gruner might have been National Socialist Party members; I'm not positive one way or the other, and of course you had never heard of them before being schooled on the matter a while back. But they were still civilians kidnapped by Soviet socialists to do the work that clowns such as Mikhail apparently couldn't do on their own.

As long as you've still nothing but opinions to offer, what, in your opinion, is the reason Mikhail denied for 40 years that Schmeisser had anything to do with designing the AK? Why was it not until 2009, when he was pinned down on the matter and forced to admit that yes, Schmeisser "assisted" (ha ha) in the design?

In your opinion, was Schmeisser, a renowned designer of automatic weapons, even before WWI (which began in 1914) and the designer of the STG 44, and Gruner, (developer of the MG42, a truly innovative weapon) the brains behind a weapon obviously patterned after the Stg44, or do you believe the "official" (ha ha) Soviet story? I see you still have no evidence to contradict any of the facts I've presented, so share some more of your feelings.

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As a HUGE fan of all German weapons since...well forever, it makes me happy to hear that the Germans had a hand in the AK. Personally I do think the Russians are inferior to the Germans in weapons design. Look to WW2 for this. Whether Kalashnikov had help or not doesn't change the fact that something draws me to the AK. Even though mine are all sold off, I miss them here and there. That raw functionality and rugged look. Just a primitive machine. Beautiful. But more beautiful would be finding a Gewehr 43 in good shape for a good price. Then I could die happy. My ideal collection is every weapon of the Wehrmacht. Or 2 of every weapon. Or 3.....

Nemesis

its not my responsibility to prove your points, its yours lol...
you have yet to actually prove anything of any significance, but hey, keep on trying bud lol

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Most of my knowledge is from books, manuals and schools, not websites, but nothing I said will be contradicted by any reliable authority on a website. I gave you a book quote/internet citation for Schmeisser being used as forced labor on the AK; there's a fairly recent book on the AK that would probably interest you and likely have more info on the topic:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gun-C-J-Chivers/dp/0743271734

As a HUGE fan of all German weapons since...well forever, it makes me happy to hear that the Germans had a hand in the AK. Personally I do think the Russians are inferior to the Germans in weapons design. Look to WW2 for this. Whether Kalashnikov had help or not doesn't change the fact that something draws me to the AK. Even though mine are all sold off, I miss them here and there. That raw functionality and rugged look. Just a primitive machine. Beautiful. But more beautiful would be finding a Gewehr 43 in good shape for a good price. Then I could die happy. My ideal collection is every weapon of the Wehrmacht. Or 2 of every weapon. Or 3.....

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Yes, the Germans did make fine weapons, although they tended to make things a little too complex at times, and might have been better-served following the Soviet model of making craploads of decent small arms, rather than a comparative handful of outstanding weapons. The AK is fine in the task it was designed for, and it was a racy-looking weapon back in the day. It was the weapon used by the bad guys in the novel that the original Die Hard was based on; kind of wish they'd have stayed with it for the movie version instead of the going to the MP5. Of course, the good guy had a Browning Hi-Power in the book, rather than Bruce Willis's Beretta, so I guess they wanted to update it to the 80's.

The FG42 was always my favorite German gun. They have a nice one up at Aberdeen, but they weren't too keen on selling it or letting anyone test it out.

its funny to me how you seem to assume ignorance on my part, yet youre yet to even once mention bulkin. furthermore as you ramble on and on with the same copy/paste posts you fail to realize that there are very, very few designs that have come from just one person...even JMB had help and used ideas from other designs. thats just the way it works, always has and always will. some cave man found a sharp stick, the next couldnt find one so he made one, then another one tried putting a sharp rock on the end of his stick...next thing you know you have the final design of mankinds most prolific weapon...

at the end of the day, who cares how it came to be so long as it did.

Nemesis

its funny to me how you seem to assume ignorance on my part, yet youre yet to even once mention bulkin. furthermore as you ramble on and on with the same copy/paste posts you fail to realize that there are very, very few designs that have come from just one person...even JMB had help and used ideas from other designs. thats just the way it works, always has and always will. some cave man found a sharp stick, the next couldnt find one so he made one, then another one tried putting a sharp rock on the end of his stick...next thing you know you have the final design of mankinds most prolific weapon...

at the end of the day, who cares how it came to be so long as it did.

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It's funny to me that you accused me of telling you too much, and making things up, but after I told you how to google, you accuse me of copy/pasting and not telling you enough.

I have not copy/pasted from any source without attribution. I didn't mention Bulkin or other Soviet designs because they are Soviet, not German, and the people here seemed to have no idea who Schmeisser was, so why mention Bulkin?

JMB is in no way comparable to Kalashnikov. Not even close. One was prolific, making tons of successful models, from single-shots, to lever-action, semi-auto, full-auto, pistols, shotguns, rifles, squad automatic rifles, air and water-cooled MG's, heavy MG's, and designing completely new operating systems from the ground up, including designs still used by the most highly-trained military and civilian shooters in the world today.

The other fellow was lucky enough to be selected as the "Soviet Hero Worker" given credit for a design by captured German weapons experts, which was a simplified amalgamation of pre-existing designs, cheap to build and easy for poorly-trained conscript armies, child soldiers and terrorists to use.

yep, those poor nazis...

Kinbote said:

Most of my knowledge is from books, manuals and schools

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Cool. which ones?

Here's the latest on Mikhail's "come to God" moment=> http://news.yahoo.com/kalashnikov-repented-killings-letter-church-report-085934283.html

llkoolkeg said:

Here's the latest on Mikhail's "come to God" moment=> http://news.yahoo.com/kalashnikov-repented-killings-letter-church-report-085934283.html

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Well its only too late when you are dead and buried...everyone has the choice to repent...prior to death. I wondered what his thoughts were on his invention.

Kinbote said:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bw...onepage&q=Kalashnikov hugo schmeisser&f=false

There's a book on Mikhail, has him posing in front of a pic of Comrade Lenin. Directly above that tableau is a quote about Schmeisser being conscripted and sent as forced labor to work on the AK47 as forced labor.

Go ahead and google anything you don't believe; the facts I've posted are common knowledge. I don't see why you wouldn't have just done that already; it certainly isn't difficult.

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MK had already designed at least one sub-machine gun before Schmeisser ever showed up. Its pretty well documented that Mr. Schmeisser assisted with adapting stamping machinery captured from Germany. As late as the 1970's 30's era german steel stamping machinery was being used in Russian factories *source Mig Pilot: The Final Escape of Lieutenant Belenko