Armslist Argues It’s Not Liable for 2012 Shooting

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    The Wisconsin Supreme Court grappled with the potential liability of a website that brokers gun sales between third parties in oral arguments Thursday, considering whether or not it is negligent for the website to facilitate possibly illegal gun sales without directly publishing the ads for those gun sales itself.

    The case is connected to a 2012 shooting at the Azana Spa and Salon in Brookfield, a town roughly 10 miles west of Milwaukee. The shooter, Radcliffe Haughton, entered the salon and opened fire, killing two bystanders, himself and his estranged wife, Zina Daniel Haughton.

    An investigation of that shooting turned up that Haughton purchased the gun he used on Armslist, a gun sales brokerage website that facilitates firearm sales between third-party buyers and sellers.

    Haughton, however, was prohibited from gun ownership by both state and federal law because of a prior domestic violence conviction.

    While federally-licensed firearm dealers are required by law to run background checks on potential buyers, unlicensed private sellers are not. Armslist ostensibly finds its niche relative to this private-seller realm, providing a platform for sales between private sellers.


    https://www.courthousenews.com/gun-broker-website-argues-its-not-liable-for-2012-shooting/
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    The choice to sell to a prohibited person was made by the seller. If the web site didn't make any assertions about running a process that vets the users' suitability to make a purchase, and isn't required by law to do so (since they're not actually party to the sale) then this is not on them. I don't see why this is even in court.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I think the choice was the prohibited person buying the firearm unless the seller willingly sold to a known prohibited person which I did not see was the case in the article. Then the choice was the prohibited person performing the act of violence. They are upset because the only person to truly blame is now dead.
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,787
    Ridiculous. Would eBay be responsible if someone bought a knife and stabbed somebody?
     

    Sirex

    Powered by natural gas
    Oct 30, 2010
    10,380
    Westminster, MD
    Ridiculous. Would eBay be responsible if someone bought a knife and stabbed somebody?

    In England they would be hanged, then tossed in a bin.


    It's like cars.com or craigslist facilitating the private sale of a car to a person who has a suspended license for drunk driving. The private seller wouldnt know, and if the buyer took the car home, decided not to tag it, and drove it out, hitring someone, how would the seller or website be responsible for the buyers abuse of said item?
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    How do I as a private citizen selling a firearm ascertain that the buyer unknown to me is not a prohibited person? those databases are not publically available.
     

    Amigo109

    Active Member
    Jan 25, 2018
    265
    Columbia MD
    It's the fault of the truck driver who drove the truck from the manufacturer to the store that the firearm was originally purchased from. Or it could be the fault of the guy running the dozer at the mine where the ore was mined that eventually made the gun.

    It definitely wasn't the fault of the guy who pulled the trigger.
     

    TSonder505

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 11, 2019
    9
    How do I as a private citizen selling a firearm ascertain that the buyer unknown to me is not a prohibited person? those databases are not publically available.

    And the Dems make it that way on purpose. Remember, there have been many proposals to allow private sellers to use the NICS database. The Dems want it this way so when they make the checks "universal," you can't do it without going to a store during business hours and paying a fee. And of course, if you're trying to trade guns, you pay two fees.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    Gun Broker Website Cleared in Wisconsin Shooting

    The Wisconsin Supreme Court on Tuesday cleared a website that brokers gun sales of liability for a mass shooting, finding that facilitating firearm sales between third parties is not the same as selling guns.

    The underlying case is connected to a 2012 shooting at the Azana Spa and Salon in Brookfield, a town roughly 10 miles west of Milwaukee. The shooter, Radcliffe Haughton, entered the salon and opened fire, killing two bystanders, himself and his estranged wife, Zina Daniel Haughton.

    An investigation of that shooting found that Haughton bought the gun he used on Armslist, a gun sales brokerage website that facilitates firearm sales between third-party buyers and sellers.

    https://www.courthousenews.com/gun-broker-website-cleared-in-wisconsin-shooting/
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    I must still be missing something. Sure, brokering a sale isn’t the same as selling. But who cares? Whoever sold him the gun(s) is likewise not liable for the crime the killer committed, unless it can be shown the seller knew in advance the buyer was going to kill people. Seller, broker, doesn’t matter neither of those parties chose to kill people. How is this any different than suggesting that a car broker isn’t guilty for a buyer’s drunk driving manslaughter .. and implying that the actual seller is?
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    It was an attempt to shutdown sales face-to-face afforded by a larger audience using the internet.

    The antis were trying to drive a wedge in the law that offers protection to dealers.

    Shutting down "internet sales" is one of their planks.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,930
    Messages
    7,259,470
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom