Legality of changing uppers

Boom Boom · Feb 4, 2017

44man said:
i dont believe there are any banned uppers. nothing they can do about uppers that would cause a rifle to be banned until its installed on a lower. according to the atf uppers are just parts until they are installed on a lower, as far as i know. if not someone enlighten me.

not a dig, just trying to figure this out for myself.

Yeah, I changed my wording to "pre-ban" to avoid confusion. We can buy whatever uppers we want, NFA aside. It's just illegal to put non-HBAR (pre-ban) uppers on a post-ban lower within MD boundaries.

swinokur · Feb 4, 2017

like I said, not a good analogy.

apologies.

44man · Feb 4, 2017

Boom Boom said:
Yeah, I changed my wording to "pre-ban" to avoid confusion.

swinokur said:
like I said, not a good analogy.

apologies.

j8064 · Feb 4, 2017

kgain673 said:
Not unless that lower was purchased prior to October 2013 by you. The law is dumb.

outrider58 said:
FIFY

That is my understanding too. I have a build with a CMMG bull barrel upper. The rifle has a new tube and bipod (thanks outrider58!) installed. It's mounted on a lower I bought, transferred and built in 2011. HBAR? My bet is a 20" bull barrel is way heavier than any advertised HBAR config.

My belief is I could drop any legal upper I want on this lower since it was acquired prior to 10/2013 --- until and if there's a legal ruling telling me I cannot...

I don't want to be a test case. But this rifle will attend a Hooligan shoot in the morning...

:thumbsup:

Doco Overboard · Feb 4, 2017

What about lowers that were banned specifically by name that were purchased out of state, possessed in MD before the ban and are then fitted with an upper that the OP described? Easy now, I'm not an AR guy. Oh wait Im slow more coming in!

swinokur · Feb 4, 2017

if possessed before 10-1-13, legal

Boom Boom · Feb 4, 2017

Doco Overboard said:
What about lowers that were banned specifically by name that were purchased out of state, possessed in MD before the ban and are then fitted with an upper that the OP described? Easy now, I'm not an AR guy.

Good to go. If you owned the complete rifle or just the lower prior to 10-1-13, it's grandfathered. Use whatever non-NFA upper you desire.

outrider58 · Feb 4, 2017

j8064 said:
That is my understanding too. I have a build with a CMMG bull barrel upper. The rifles has a new tube and tripod installed. It's mounted on a lower I bought, transferred and built in 2011. HBAR? My bet is a 20" bull barrel is way heavier than any advertised HBAR config.

My belief is I could drop any legal upper I want on this lower since it was acquired prior to 10/2013 --- until and if there's a legal ruling telling me I cannot...

I don't want to be a test case. But this rifle will attend a Hooligan shoot in the morning...

You sir, are good to go. I would go back to whomever you bought that 'tripod' from. I think they shorted you one tripod leg.

Sorry Joe. Had to do it.

j8064 · Feb 4, 2017

outrider58 said:
You sir, are good to go. I would go back to whomever you bought that 'tripod' from. I think they shorted you one tripod leg.

Sorry Joe. Had to do it.

Dayum! And I proof read my post too!

:rofl:

Doco Overboard · Feb 4, 2017

swinokur said:
if possessed before 10-1-13, IMO legal

Thats what Smigial told me, once the new law went into affect all previous language became moot. I don't own a rifle with the evil features just a scary name but its a neutered DCM.

outrider58 · Feb 4, 2017

All my post ban lowers are SBR/stamped. All my pre-ban guns are long barreled. Some happen to have Hbars on them, some don't. :shrug:

Trepang · Feb 4, 2017

Blacksmith101 said:
But you can't buy the lower even if it is stripped of all parts without going through an FFL. In the eyes of the law the upper is the same as buying a new barrel to replace one that is damaged.

That is how this whole question came up. I have a Colt 6721 that has a barrel with a lot of wear. I found a new, complete Colt 6721 HBAR barrel on Gun Broker for Chad to swap out for me. At work we were discussing how much the new barrel cost compared to what I could have just bought a new 6920 upper for. A lot of guys thought it would be legal to put the 6920 upper on it since it is "just a part" without a serial number and without it being required to go through an FFL.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 4, 2017

But once you attached it to your lower, you would have created a Banned rifle.

Every component that can be aquired separately can not necessarily be legally assembled together.

Now your firiends could have discussed the $ of replacing a 6721 bbl vs buying a complete generic HBAR upper.

iH8DemLibz · Feb 4, 2017

Is this the official kick-off for the 2017 HBAR threads?

I was beginning to worry.

Trepang · Feb 4, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
But once you attached it to your lower, you would have created a Banned rifle.

Every component that can be aquired separately can not necessarily be legally assembled together.

Now your firiends could have discussed the $ of replacing a 6721 bbl vs buying a complete generic HBAR upper.

I''ll pay the $$$ for a Colt HBAR barrel - I have zero interest in putting a generic HBAR upper on a 17 year old, AWB era police-trade in Colt. It is staying 100% Colt no matter what it costs.

outrider58 · Feb 4, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
Is the official kick-off for the 2017 HBAR threads?

I was beginning to worry.

Hey, it's a good sign. Not a one in January. :thumbsup:

dblas · Feb 4, 2017

Boom Boom said:
Let's not erect restrictions that don't exist. The state of MD has no legal construct regarding intent. Regardless, it wouldn't be wise to transport a post-ban lower (sans upper) next to a pre-ban upper. But, assuming you're not prohibited, there's nothing MD can legally do if you transport a complete post-ban rifle in the same vehicle as pre-ban uppers.

That isn't a state barrier, that is a FEDERAL barrier, and BATFE has gone after people, had them charged and convicted for just this thing.

DaemonAssassin · Feb 4, 2017

Boom Boom said:
Let's not erect restrictions that don't exist. The state of MD has no legal construct regarding intent. Regardless, it wouldn't be wise to transport a post-ban lower (sans upper) next to a pre-ban upper. But, assuming you're not prohibited, there's nothing MD can legally do if you transport a complete post-ban rifle in the same vehicle as pre-ban uppers.

dblas said:
That isn't a state barrier, that is a FEDERAL barrier, and BATFE has gone after people, had them charged and convicted for just this thing.

This is why you assemble an AR pistol lower, before assembling an AR pistol upper, if you have AR rifles in the house. :innocent0

Muleskinner · Feb 5, 2017

It gets sillier still...You can buy a rifle from Fightlite industries (formerly ARES Defense) called the SCR It's essentially an AR upper on a proprietary lower..Still uses standard AR Mags, still has the same bolt with a proprietary BCG..it comes with a non HBAR...Perfectly legal...AND the rifle will accept any standard AR upper and can be configured to fire just about any caliber ARs come in...You can ALSO purchase just the upper from them...But if you put their upper on an AR lower you're illegal...

Trepang · Feb 5, 2017

This is how it got started. A new Colt 6721 HBAR barrel assembly (kind of hard to find) goes for more than an 6920 upper but it can't legally be put it on a lower purchased after 10/2013 despite the fact the lower is 17 years old. :sad20:

Legality of changing uppers

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