Funding HQL Lawsuit

Schipperke said:

This is what amuses me. You already know legal battles have nothing to do with cloak and dagger. I'm just trying to ascertain what is the major difference in the HQL from what other states impose and were held up by the court. Doesn't IL, NJ , MA have some regulations ? You think tipping your hand now makes any difference? If people have something tangible to back (complaint on paper) you don't think that will get more support? We have this to go on;



That reads nice coming from an attorney, why not a bit of breaking it down to laymen? It's always "this is a slam dunk" but the meat is always a mystery. Is this something where if the training can be challenged, the entire thing goes away? Looks like NJ does not require training, but #29 Looks there you better have friends to affirm your rights. http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/sts-033.pdf

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teratos said:

I don't think anything like this has ever been challenged, at least not since Heller/McDonald. Once having a handgun in the home has been deemed a core Right the game changed. You can't put any fee or hurdle like training in the way of the exercise of that Right. Can you imagine if a grammar class/test with a 1 speech requirement was instituted prior to people being able to exercise their 1A Rights? Exact same thing here. See Minnesota Star Tribune vs. Minnesota to see how it went when the State government tried to place a fee on the exercise of a free press.


This case is very strong. It has never been challenged. It could have wide reaching implications for all states requiring any kind of license prior to purchasing a firearm. Quit the BS. Either help fund it or don't.

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dist1646 said:

I think this is the best way to fight it. The Supreme Court has already held that fees can not be charged in order to exercise a Constitutional right.

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Schipperke said:

I don't disagree at all with previous reasoning. However, just don't be surprised if it does not hunt. Supreme Court regulates "rights" as normal procedure. May already be some more of that settled law Hogan likes to wave around. So many on the right have been blindly lead to believe that Constitutional rights are not under ANY scrutiny of regulation, when they absolutely are and upheld by the court. The strict interpretation of 2A as unlimited, is just not so.

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited” [Justice Antonin Scalia]. Scalia also wrote that The Second Amendment is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Scalia’s opinion in Heller, “Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on a wide range of gun laws, including bars on felons and the mentally ill from possessing guns, restrictions on guns in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. "

It is fairly agreed that Scalia is a Right leaning justice. Read what he wrote again When I read people hearing Hogan et al proclaiming they are 2A supporters, then somehow that automatically means shall issue, sorry that may be their definition, but clearly not Scalia's. I think Hogan would hang his hat with Scalia's definition over people on this board for his own expediency. Hogan to profess he is a 2A supporter has nothing to do with shall issue, and believes he is a true supporter. I'm sure the MSI legal council knows all the history above. Best of luck unwinding it.

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Schipperke said:

Well, MSI can try greasing Pallozzi with the $100K for quasi shall issue. I think many would take that and a lot simpler than a HQL fight.

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teratos said:

Next gov will reverse that in a heartbeat.

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44man said:

just so I understand were people stand, is it msi and others belief that Hogan is a 1 tem governor? and if so why not try and help us? and if he is hoping for a second term why not help us and show that after 1 or 2 terms, whichever it may be, that allowing we peons to protect ourselves and our families doesn't cause blood in the streets or md to become the wild wild west with shootouts everyday at noon? I am just a simple man, help me understand.

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Mr H said:

Speaking for myself...

Hogan knows he has to be successful in the first term before he can even consider a second.

I also know he understands the desire for us to be able to protect ourselves.

The reality is, though (and this has been expounded on in several other threads, so I'll leave this in broad terms), that the state's issues are broad and many, and "getting to us" is on the list, but hard to say where.

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Mr H said:

Speaking for myself...

Hogan knows he has to be successful in the first term before he can even consider a second.

I also know he understands the desire for us to be able to protect ourselves.

The reality is, though (and this has been expounded on in several other threads, so I'll leave this in broad terms), that the state's issues are broad and many, and "getting to us" is on the list, but hard to say where.

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Mr H said:

Speaking for myself...

Hogan knows he has to be successful in the first term before he can even consider a second.

I also know he understands the desire for us to be able to protect ourselves.

The reality is, though (and this has been expounded on in several other threads, so I'll leave this in broad terms), that the state's issues are broad and many, and "getting to us" is on the list, but hard to say where.

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Muleskinner said:

So picking up the phone, calling his MSP head and asking him to included self defense as G&S would be too time consuming? Hogan is not a micro manager, he could make one 2 minute phone call to get the ball rolling. Being worried about his political career is an immoral excuse not to allow people to defend themselves. All we are hearing are excuses why it can't be done right now from the very people who are suppose to be trying to make it happen? Why aren't you in Annapolis every day? Why aren't you asking all Md gun owners to flood his in box and his office with demands that he do this? We see you taking very little action...Talk is cheap..

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Muleskinner said:

There are other states that require similar permits, they have been challenged and lost. What is so different about Maryland's system? I despise it to the point that I will probably never purchase another hand gun in this state....but the precedent has been set, the courts agree and I don't believe it will go anywhere

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esqappellate said:

Actually, that is incorrect. No other state, for example, requires "one shot" of "live" ammunition. That means you have to have access to an established range, virtually impossible in some parts of MD if you don't drive or have a car. Public ranges are few and far between and the private ranges are generally restricted to members only. DC used to require 4 hours of instructor training but no live fire, until that was challenged in Heller II and they wisely amended it to require only on-line training for 30 minutes. You take all these requirements together, MD's HQL is by far the most restrictive and imposes the most obstacles of any state in the union. By the way, the FOID requirements of other states are 1. few in number and 2. none were challenged after Heller.

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