Serious Dialogue. Why are you against.....

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  • montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    ....or deeply concerned with allowing Marylanders to own and carry firearms?

    It's no secret that this forum is home to some members who do not see the Second Amendment as others do.

    I am honestly interested in hearing some explanations as to why you developed this perspective. What information has led you to this mindset and how do you see the level of crime attributed to firearm laws, or the lack of laws.

    PLEASE KEEP THIS CIVIL AND RESPECTFUL.
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    Not that I agree with it, but there a few hear who support campus carry bans, especially by college students. I would like to lump that in with this thread.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    After the LV shooting some of my more liberal leaning acquaintances, expressed support for gun restrictions. Generally they seem to respond the way they do out of fear and ignorance. The thing I hear the most is that what they see as military weapons are simply not necessary in “a modern civil society”. Most express no issue with hunting, sporting clays or even hand guns for personal protection. They have no idea what’s involved in getting an HQL or CCW permit. Some think that anyone can simply go to a store and buy a gun like buying a power tool.

    I’s late and I don’t want to go into nuance of the conversations. I’ve surprised some people when I talk about owning several of those “military style” rifles. Some even expressed curiosity asking questions about competitions I’ve participated in. If someone is so inclined to ask about how to purchase a gun in MD, I share what I know. I don’t pretend to think that I’m going to sway any opinions but who knows.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Because the left likes to institutionalize fear, they want everyone to fear what they fear. Gunowners do not fear what the left does per se, we prepare for it. The left also knows when the SHTF they now that us gunowners are much more compassionate than they make us out to be.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    I'm not one of them , but I can relate some of the themes commonly expressed by putative pro- gun people on some of this :

    At ( whichever public access Range ) I have observed people doing ignorant/ stupid/ incompetent actions and activities that went beyond comical to scary , and dangerous .

    I ( hypothetical person ) had partaken of xyz training and instruction when I started out with guns ( last month/ last year / up to 10yr ago ) . I found such training to be of value to me . * I * wouldn't do those stupid/ dangerous things those other guys did .

    So adding 2+2=5 , The World would be a better place , if everyone else were mandated to be just like me .

    [ I specified a shooting experience background of up to 10yrs on purpose . Much farther back we hadn't been taken over by creeping credentialism , and most people learned in a more personal manner from family members , or experienced Mentors .]

    And since it was specifically brought up - Sterotypes of college students closely resemble R rated campus comedies such as Animal House . Prodigious quanities of beer , booze , and weed . Non-stop partying . Silly pranks with few thoughts of consequences . Constant state of hormones , leading to orgies , constantly hooking up , sexual harassment, and widespread rape culture .

    People like that are dangerous to themselves and others just by breathing , heaven forbid they were armed . The dorm bld hallways , and classrooms would * Run with Blood * .
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    ....or deeply concerned with allowing Marylanders to own and carry firearms?

    It's no secret that this forum is home to some members who do not see the Second Amendment as others do.

    I am honestly interested in hearing some explanations as to why you developed this perspective. What information has led you to this mindset and how do you see the level of crime attributed to firearm laws, or the lack of laws.

    PLEASE KEEP THIS CIVIL AND RESPECTFUL.

    We can't have a discussion about a girl making a sandwich without some losing it. You can't really expect this thread to end well? Can you?
     

    Anotherpyr

    Ultimate Member
    It's a case of tunnel vision. You see a potential problem if every moron is allowed access to guns. But then fail to see the potential problems when all are denied access.

    Many people are driven by emotions and are thus exploited by media and others that wish to control the narrative. Few think through the problem to see all possible outcomes and accept that there is no perfect solution. But laws are not about outcomes beyond campaign finance and rewarding the keys to power.
     

    Redcobra

    Senior Shooter
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 10, 2010
    6,422
    Near the Chesapeake Bay
    I am extremely pro-gun and pro-carry. I would carry daily in a heartbeat if I could.
    However, I am not against mandated training for carry, and I am certainly against Campus carry.
    Sorry, and I know all the arguments for not restricting carry anywhere, but I taught College at a prestigious University for 35 years. It wasn't "Animal House", but it came close at time.
    I have seen young men and particularly young women fly off the handle over the silliest things at both each other and at Faculty. Sometimes youthful exuberance and firearms do not mix, especially in the sacred halls of Education.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,990
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I am extremely pro-gun and pro-carry. I would carry daily in a heartbeat if I could.
    However, I am not against mandated training for carry, and I am certainly against Campus carry.
    Sorry, and I know all the arguments for not restricting carry anywhere, but I taught College at a prestigious University for 35 years. It wasn't "Animal House", but it came close at time.
    I have seen young men and particularly young women fly off the handle over the silliest things at both each other and at Faculty. Sometimes youthful exuberance and firearms do not mix, especially in the sacred halls of Education.



    So I'm sure that you procured your FQL (Forum Qualification License) before you joined here right? If training is mandatory for one right then certainly it should be for all.

    Regarding campus carry, no one is advocating carrying firearms at a frat party. You're okay with denying the veteran who went back to school on the GI Bill his right to carry to defend himself? You're okay with being defenseless during a lecture when a Va Tech incident happens? You're okay with turning law abiding permit holders into felons for travelling through a campus like UMD during their daily business?
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    I’m not against concealed carry permits, I would actually prefer it versus open carry in some instances. My problem is where you can carry. Stop for a moment and think about it, is one more likely to be threaten with bodily harm or death in a public subway. Or more to the point how about any place where there is a large gathering of individuals. How about the places like the Pentagon or other historical/high value targets? In my point of view Terrorism, is on the rise. It will not simply go away. It is just like mass shootings, they are here to stay because the news chooses to publicize it. The internet, as well, has become the historical vault ensuring these moments are forever viewable. I also find that the public is really ill informed. Hold up a .30-06 and .223 Cartridge and ask which should be banned or used for hunting and they will choose the .30-60 nine times out of ten. Show them an AR-15, Mini 14 with a wooden stock or a Deer rifle with a wooden stock and they will say the AR should be banned. Because they have been condition they way. These lines of thinking need to be changed and only we can do it. Also, have you ever wondered how many individuals have obtained a LEOSA concealed carry license in Maryland? Where do they live and has this affected the crime rate in those areas?
     

    Brychan

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    8,391
    Baltimore
    I am very pro 2A, let's start by repealing every firearm law post 1950. Mandatory training no. Although basic firearm training and marksmanship in school should be offered. Very pro low cost basic firearm training perhaps offered by community college or local ranges for new firearm owners would be great. Constitutional carry nation wide.
     

    Redcobra

    Senior Shooter
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 10, 2010
    6,422
    Near the Chesapeake Bay
    So I'm sure that you procured your FQL (Forum Qualification License) before you joined here right? If training is mandatory for one right then certainly it should be for all.

    Regarding campus carry, no one is advocating carrying firearms at a frat party.
    But if they can, they will. You're okay with denying the veteran who went back to school on the GI Bill his right to carry to defend himself?NO You're okay with being defenseless during a lecture when a Va Tech incident happens? You're okay with turning law abiding permit holders into felons for travelling through a campus like UMD during their daily business?No, speaking of students.

    See above
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,990
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    See above


    You speak with forked tongue.

    MOST frat boys aren't yet 21 and it is already ILLEGAL for them to carry at frat parties or elsewhere.

    The campus carry ban bill that was defeated last year had all those provisions in it.

    You say that you are against campus carry but when given some examples it's a well not that part.


    Wowzers, great argument.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    I am very pro 2A, let's start by repealing every firearm law post 1950. Mandatory training no. Although basic firearm training and marksmanship in school should be offered. Very pro low cost basic firearm training perhaps offered by community college or local ranges for new firearm owners would be great. Constitutional carry nation wide.

    The 1930's is where it all started. The National Firearms Act and the Federal Firearms Act started all this mess. Then US vs Miller I believe enforced those laws without a fight. The poor guy (really, he was poor) didn't fight what could easily have been a win against the anti gun movement.

    I don't agree with your training. How many rural or city folks will have access to a community college or a local range? If the firearm wasn't taken out of the family equation, the kids would be taught by their father. Just like was done for decades. Again, take away the gun control of the 1930's and many of the gun control problems of today, would go away.
     

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