Westminster gun ordinance introduced

smkranz · Dec 11, 2018

...to allow firearm sales in downtown/Main Street :party29:

https://www.carrollcountytimes.com/...l4vq_-_-q7X3NMaSBtbO_v7wnui8wOqGE4O77WMIy05v0

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 11, 2018

I don't live near Westminster but I applaud them for what in Maryland is uncommon common sense.

eruby · Dec 11, 2018

A) yay!

B) WTF:

" .... and the building must have a loading and unloading station “comprised of heavy steel enclosures.”

Councilman Gregory Pecoraro, .... inquired about purpose of the loading and unloading area. “Why would there be loaded firearms in this facility?” he asked.

“You would have police officers going in and out of there potentially, if they’re going to handle firearms there, [the officers] may choose to unload theirs to make sure there’s no live ammunition in the area,” Chiavacci chimed in. “That’s a pretty common safety standard. Any time you’re handling firearms, you don’t want any live ammunition anywhere where it could be mistakenly inserted into the weapon as you’re doing things with it.”

Those with concealed carry permits, allowing them to wield a firearm, would also need to unload their weapons in the facility, Chiavacci added. “It’s good to have a specific designated area to do that because if you do have an accidental discharge it goes into a safe repository. … If you’re doing it properly into an unloading barrel or unloading device, it goes into that instead of someone’s foot.”

The loading and unloading of live rounds supports the mayor’s point, said Dominick, who added that he owns a gun."

:sad20:

Name Taken · Dec 11, 2018

They allow a crappy bike store that smells like cat piss in the middle of their town but gun sales and a tattoo place...a bridge too far.

Embarrassing to think this is in Carroll County. Pawn shops which the owners were convicted of illegal activities all fine. The legal sale of a gun. We need to ban that to preserve "down town".

At least they are looking into fixing it.

Name Taken · Dec 11, 2018

eruby said:
A) yay!

B) WTF:

" .... and the building must have a loading and unloading station “comprised of heavy steel enclosures.”

Councilman Gregory Pecoraro, .... inquired about purpose of the loading and unloading area. “Why would there be loaded firearms in this facility?” he asked.

“You would have police officers going in and out of there potentially, if they’re going to handle firearms there, [the officers] may choose to unload theirs to make sure there’s no live ammunition in the area,” Chiavacci chimed in. “That’s a pretty common safety standard. Any time you’re handling firearms, you don’t want any live ammunition anywhere where it could be mistakenly inserted into the weapon as you’re doing things with it.”

Those with concealed carry permits, allowing them to wield a firearm, would also need to unload their weapons in the facility, Chiavacci added. “It’s good to have a specific designated area to do that because if you do have an accidental discharge it goes into a safe repository. … If you’re doing it properly into an unloading barrel or unloading device, it goes into that instead of someone’s foot.”

The loading and unloading of live rounds supports the mayor’s point, said Dominick, who added that he owns a gun."

I personally find the LESS folks handle a loaded firearm the LESS of a chance there is for a gun to go off.

Having a police officer or CCW holder unload their weapon adds the chance of a round going into someones foot.

I've never seen this in any other gun store.

Granted if they are doing training and not just sales perhaps it isn't an awful idea but why legislate it?

eruby · Dec 11, 2018

What is considered "downtown", since there's a shop just off Main Street (on Court, I think) by where the Republican HQ was).

Name Taken · Dec 11, 2018

eruby said:
What is considered "downtown", since there's a shop just off Main Street (on Court, I think) by where the Republican HQ was).

I think those are the folks who are requesting the change. I believe they offer training and other sales and want the zoning to change so they can sell firearms.

I went to their site before and I believe they offered sales. However they might be doing the sale at a different location if it is banned "in town".

SCV/SAR Patriot · Dec 11, 2018

I remember purchasing firearms from Albert's Hardware, it was probably the 80's early 90's. The shop was a total mess and cats everywhere! The proprietors name was Shannon but he ended up closing shop and worked at Tractor Supply for a while, haven't seen him there in quite some time.

Atrox88 · Dec 11, 2018

Name Taken said:
They allow a crappy bike store that smells like cat piss in the middle of their town but gun sales and a tattoo place...a bridge too far.

What ever happened to the tattoo guy that got put out of business because of the ordinance change? Nightingale I think was his name.

GTOGUNNER · Dec 11, 2018

Name Taken said:
I personally find the LESS folks handle a loaded firearm the LESS of a chance there is for a gun to go off.

Having a police officer or CCW holder unload their weapon adds the chance of a round going into someones foot.

I've never seen this in any other gun store.

Granted if they are doing training and not just sales perhaps it isn't an awful idea but why legislate it?

^^^^^^ This for sure.

RoadDawg · Dec 11, 2018

Am I missing something in this? Is there any reason for NOT having a safe station where one may unload their firearm?

I would rather not have the old lady in the Vega next to me... unloading her deceased husband's old 1911... before she goes into a LGS to see what it is worth.

Personally...

I believe that ALL LGSs, Ranges, and places where firearms are handled at all in the normal course of business SHOULD have a safe place to unload those firearms IF and WHEN the person carrying said firearm chooses to do so.

Say... I am a CCW holder... go to a LGS... want to ask the Proprietor a question about my carry pistol... but I do NOT want to unload it in the vehicle before entering the LGS... Because I do not like the idea of walking from my vehicle to the LGS with no rounds available if I needed them.

A safe unloading station would be very welcome once inside of the LGS.

Or... as a CCW holder... I want to practice with my carry pistol... But, don't wish to be disarmed while walking from my vehicle to the Range.

Again... a safe unloading station would be welcome once inside of the range.

It beats the hell out of unloading in the vehicle. AND during all of my years in LE... The range where we qualified ALWAYS had a station wherein we would unload our duty and off duty pistols prior to entering the class room. The practice was well attended to and kept down the probability of NDs in the class area.

I have been to several ranges since retiring... And I am always uneasy with the idea that I must unload my carry pistol inside of my vehicle before I can walk into the lobby at the Range.

Name Taken · Dec 11, 2018

The issue is why legislate it? There's a thousand good ideas out there. When it's not common practice in the industry why add an additional burden on someone because you are a "gun owner" and think it is a good idea?

Per the short article who knows if they (the government) will put it in the zoning that all guns must be unloaded upon entering. At that point is it an issue? I doubt they put a requirement for an unloading box and not attach any rules to it. In the article they state some police officers who are armed might be entering the business. They make it seem like that's an issue to have a holstered and loaded gun inside the store.

If it was geared towards the training side of things then sure. I wouldn't want to instruct a class or run through practical role playing or video game situations with loaded guns in the room.

If they are just requiring the owner to buy or build a hundred dollar spot to unload the firearm and leave it at that then maybe it isn't a big deal. But when you add cost, ones that aren't associated with other places selling the same items, where does it stop? Will they make Dicks put in a box? They sell guns...how about Wal-Mart? Are we only targeting one business with this special unloading box? That's an issue to me in the principle of government.

RoadDawg · Dec 11, 2018

Name Taken said:
The issue is why legislate it? There's a thousand good ideas out there. When it's not common practice in the industry why add an additional burden on someone because you are a "gun owner" and think it is a good idea?

Per the short article who knows if they (the government) will put it in the zoning that all guns must be unloaded upon entering. At that point is it an issue? I doubt they put a requirement for an unloading box and not attach any rules to it. In the article they state some police officers who are armed might be entering the business. They make it seem like that's an issue to have a holstered and loaded gun inside the store.

If it was geared towards the training side of things then sure. I wouldn't want to instruct a class or run through practical role playing or video game situations with loaded guns in the room.

If they are just requiring the owner to buy or build a hundred dollar spot to unload the firearm and leave it at that then maybe it isn't a big deal. But when you add cost, ones that aren't associated with other places selling the same items, where does it stop? Will they make Dicks put in a box? They sell guns...how about Wal-Mart? Are we only targeting one business with this special unloading box? That's an issue to me in the principle of government.

I agree with you on the issue... But I also see that it is not something we should be railing against in practice. There are other battles which are more important. And it is not simply a "good idea". It is the same as keeping one's booger hook off of the bang switch... It is SOUND doctrine. It is responsible. And LGS and Range owners should provide it for their clientele.

jrumann59 · Dec 12, 2018

RoadDawg said:
I agree with you on the issue... But I also see that it is not something we should be railing against in practice. There are other battles which are more important. And it is not simply a "good idea". It is the same as keeping one's booger hook off of the bang switch... It is SOUND doctrine. It is responsible. And LGS and Range owners should provide it for their clientele.

RD, I agree but if. The question then becomes what is adequate, a 55 gallon drum filled water or sand or say a Binford Round Eater that can safely unload an M1 tank. Once something likes this is legislated the gov't can put undue hardship on the business to have the very "best" equipment if it wants to retain its license.

RoadDawg · Dec 12, 2018

jrumann59 said:
RD, I agree but if. The question then becomes what is adequate, a 55 gallon drum filled water or sand or say a Binford Round Eater that can safely unload an M1 tank. Once something likes this is legislated the gov't can put undue hardship on the business to have the very "best" equipment if it wants to retain its license.

True...

But... It STILL beats having grandma unloading grandad's 1911 in her Vega in the parking lot with NO safe unloading station. AND if the Ranges and LGSs would simply look at what the LEAs are using... They already have a standard. And it is either a sand filled metal drum... or... a heavy plywood box lined with kevlar vest panels.

TexDefender · Dec 12, 2018

I don't know about you all, but I was taught and trained that a firearm is "Always" considered loaded until "you" removed the magazine and visually inspected the chamber. This was and to me always rule number one, never to be discounted as consequence of a fatal discharge cannot be reversed. I have always during my training and career used a clearing barrel. I don't think it is something that should be discouraged, if one desires to have one. There is always individuals that will take things to extremes.

RoadDawg · Dec 12, 2018

TexDefender said:
I don't know about you all, but I was taught and trained that a firearm is "Always" considered loaded until "you" removed the magazine and visually inspected the chamber. This was and to me always rule number one, never to be discounted as consequence of a fatal discharge cannot be reversed. I have always during my training and career used a clearing barrel. I don't think it is something that should be discouraged, if one desires to have one. There is always individuals that will take things to extremes.

That is how I STILL view ALL firearms...

But... the actual practice of unloading... will never be safer than when it is performed at a safe unloading station. And I have yet to see any stock OEM equipped vehicle on a LGS or Range parking lot... that was a safe unloading station.

I HAVE... however... seen experienced shooters who have put a round through the floor, firewall, or door of their vehicle.

eruby · Dec 12, 2018

As usual, I am the dumbest sunuvabitch to ever draw breath, as I have never noticed one of these stations in any gun shop, or range.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 12, 2018

eruby said:
As usual, I am the dumbest sunuvabitch to ever draw breath, as I have never noticed one of these stations in any gun shop, or range.

At one federal agency I know of over twenty years ago, they had a 55 gallon barrel of sand and all were required to keep their revolvers pointed into it when loading or unloading. Revolvers.

Maybe that said something more about the officers they hired...or maybe their bosses.

TexDefender · Dec 12, 2018

RoadDawg said:
That is how I STILL view ALL firearms...

But... the actual practice of unloading... will never be safer than when it is performed at a safe unloading station. And I have yet to see any stock OEM equipped vehicle on a LGS or Range parking lot... that was a safe unloading station.

I HAVE... however... seen experienced shooters who have put a round through the floor, firewall, or door of their vehicle.

LOL, what use to scare my fellow NCO's is when we have clearing barrel duty. There is nothing more scarier than a Army PVT. clearing his weapon. The paperwork was awful!

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