Property Taxes Frederick?

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  • pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Anyone know if we are able to prepay property taxes? With the new tax law coming I want to capture the deduction for one more year but I don't think its possible. Looks like on the county website the bills listed are just for last year.

    Not much time left.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Update if anyone cares. I called the office and they have no ability to accept early payment. Actually I'm sure they have the ability but it's government.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    Mill rate is determined on a yearly basis. They can't accept early payment without making things complicated. Would have to send prepayers another bill or refund check next year.
     

    MigraineMan

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 9, 2011
    19,109
    Frederick County
    Mill rate is determined on a yearly basis. They can't accept early payment without making things complicated. Would have to send prepayers another bill or refund check next year.

    More than likely the "actual" tax amounts haven't been determined yet, and their system doesn't have the ability to escrow money against a non-existent future-bill.

    Having visited the FredCo Treasurer's office in-person, there is a lot of "paper" involved in the current processing. I agree that asking them to escrow future payments would seriously complicate things (worser than they already are.)
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    You can still deduct up to $10k. Frederick, greater than $10k property taxes??

    10k is the combined max deduction to property and state income taxes.

    Its blue state punishment. Not that I don't agree with the new law but it clearly is a blue state beat down.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Mill rate is determined on a yearly basis. They can't accept early payment without making things complicated. Would have to send prepayers another bill or refund check next year.


    Right. I offered to pay my previous year rate and then just send me a bill in July for the difference. They thought I had two heads.

    Once again, government. God forbid they are run like an efficient business.
     

    Petar

    Member
    Nov 18, 2010
    532
    I am facing a tax increase starting next year. I get f*cker no matter who is in power. Merry Christmas!
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Update if anyone cares. I called the office and they have no ability to accept early payment. Actually I'm sure they have the ability but it's government.

    Right. I offered to pay my previous year rate and then just send me a bill in July for the difference. They thought I had two heads.

    Once again, government. God forbid they are run like an efficient business.

    Jesus man, take the passive aggressive act somewhere else and grow up. You didn't get what you wanted and it is government's fault. Boo hoo.

    Here is the deal. You weren't able to pre-pay in years past, so what makes you think you'd be able to do it now?

    If you think FredCo is run poorly, you should look at other counties that employ a max of 2500 people, and still are able to effectively serve the needs of the residents inside the county. What was the last census for FredCo, something like 768k people in the county? Do the math and you will see that county employees are seriously undermanned, according to the numbers. But county employees do their job efficiently, effectively, and quietly.

    Instead of vilifying people that weren't able to help you do something that didn't exist, maybe you should turn that around and see what is truly wrong with you, that would cause you spout off about a civil servant that was unable to help you.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Civil servant? What the hell are you talking about? I'm not blaming the lady behind the computer but the system she has to work with.

    I'm a$$ raped a ton of money every year by MD and Frederick County. Yes, I expect better. I expect an efficient business run entity. I can prepay every bill that comes to my mailbox. There are no excuses to how crappy the government is run. Otherwise lower my f-ing taxes if I'm going to be served a crap product from education to the DMV to everything else.
     

    trailman

    Active Member
    Nov 15, 2011
    631
    Frederick
    Civil servant? What the hell are you talking about? I'm not blaming the lady behind the computer but the system she has to work with.

    I'm a$$ raped a ton of money every year by MD and Frederick County. Yes, I expect better. I expect an efficient business run entity. I can prepay every bill that comes to my mailbox. There are no excuses to how crappy the government is run. Otherwise lower my f-ing taxes if I'm going to be served a crap product from education to the DMV to everything else.

    Interesting. I'll bet you scream bloody murder at the checkout cashier every time toilet paper goes up too. And yes you're blaming the lady behind the counter yet you'd be surprised at how many of those people behind the counter @30 N market agree with you. See the thing is the folks up on the third floor and the council on the first) that you put in office think this shit up. So its your fault. Hell the BOE spends 65% of your tax money and YOU vote for them.
     

    Fredcohunter

    Active Member
    Nov 30, 2008
    431
    A little west of Frederick
    The IRS hasn't commented on the prepayment of 2018 County real property taxes however they may. Prepaying 2018 estimated income taxes was addressed in the new tax bill and it will not be allowed as a deduction in 2017.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Interesting. I'll bet you scream bloody murder at the checkout cashier every time toilet paper goes up too. And yes you're blaming the lady behind the counter yet you'd be surprised at how many of those people behind the counter @30 N market agree with you. See the thing is the folks up on the third floor and the council on the first) that you put in office think this shit up. So its your fault. Hell the BOE spends 65% of your tax money and YOU vote for them.

    I don't think you read my posts because the first line in post #11 negates everything you are assuming.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    The IRS hasn't commented on the prepayment of 2018 County real property taxes however they may. Prepaying 2018 estimated income taxes was addressed in the new tax bill and it will not be allowed as a deduction in 2017.

    Really? Are you sure because it looks like Montgomery and Fairfax did some last minute sessions today to allow their systems to accept payment.

    Why would they do that if the new tax bill explicitly states prepayment will not be deductible? I guess the obvious answer is those counties are heavy democrats and are putting on a "resistance" show or they never read the tax bill/law.
     

    Fredcohunter

    Active Member
    Nov 30, 2008
    431
    A little west of Frederick
    Really? Are you sure because it looks like Montgomery and Fairfax did some last minute sessions today to allow their systems to accept payment.

    Why would they do that if the new tax bill explicitly states prepayment will not be deductible? I guess the obvious answer is those counties are heavy democrats and are putting on a "resistance" show or they never read the tax bill/law.

    The tax bill specifically addressed the prepayment of state income tax. It did not address real property tax.

    The first paragraph of the guidance put out by Montgomery County states:

    "It will be up to the Internal Revenue Service to determine whether prepayment of 2018 County real property taxes may be deducted for Federal, State, or local income tax purposes. The County advises taxpayers to consult their own tax advisor about deducting a prepayment of the taxpayer’s 2018 County real property taxes on their federal income tax return."
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    I came here this morning to ask about a custom barrel maker for my AR builds, and I ran across this thread.

    There is so much to add to this thread for the sake of clarity and just overall argument, but I need 3 or 4 cups of coffee before I get started.

    Screw it, let me get started with only a little coffee in my system.

    As far as the OP's stance is concerned regarding government, I take it as him addressing government overall, and not any specific person behind the counter. Let's face it, most of us get perturbed with big government, and there are plenty of reasons to do so.

    A little background on why people want to pre-pay their 2018 property taxes and do other tax planning transactions prior to year end. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that Trump recently signed into law, will limit the deduction of state and local income taxes and property taxes to $10,000 total. For example, if you have $11,000 in state income tax withholding, you get to deduct $10,000 of it, and you get to deduct none of your property taxes in 2018. If you have $6,000 in state withholding and $5,000 in property taxes, you add the two together and get to deduct all of $10,000, thereby losing $1,000 of the deduction. Making matters even worse, is that the standard deduction will be nearly doubled next year, which will preclude most people/couples from itemizing deductions. My wife and I will be right on the cusp of taking the standard deduction in lieu of itemizing. So, we are making all of our charitable contributions right now, and I am contemplating a decently sized 2017 4th quarter estimated tax payment too. There is no doubt that the 2017 4th quarter estimated tax payment is deductible if made prior to January 1, 2018, because it has been deductible in the past. There is a lot of doubt as to whether the pre-payment of 2018 property taxes will be deductible.

    Next, it appears that Howard County is allowing the pre-payment of property taxes this year:

    https://patch.com/maryland/ellicottcity/property-taxes-may-be-prepaid-howard-county

    Thing is, there are a lot of warnings in that link that state the pre-payments might not be allowed to be deducted on the 2017 Schedule A once the IRS comes out with its regs regarding all these changes from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Are you really paying a tax if the tax has not been levied yet?

    IRS Publication 530 states:

    Escrow accounts. Many monthly house payments include an amount placed in escrow (put in the care of a third party) for real estate taxes. You may not be able to deduct the total you pay into the escrow account. You can deduct only the real estate taxes that the lender actually paid from escrow to the taxing authority. Your real estate tax bill will show this amount.


    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p530.pdf at page 3

    So, Howard County will be holding these pre-payments in escrow, just like my mortgage company holds my monthly property tax payments in escrow. Something tells me that these payments are going to be disallowed just like they would be if one attempts to deduct all the escrow payments made for property taxes during the year.

    I have $15,000 available to me for tax planning purposes. Wish I had more, but such is life. So, I sit here contemplating making the usual 529 plan contributions that will save us 9% on state and local income taxes and that will result in all growth being tax free IF used for higher education expenses, versus making a 2017 4th quarter state income tax contribution that I will most likely have to recapture on my 2018 income tax return. We have already maxed out our 2017 HSA contribution and we will not make our 2017 IRA contributions until after I prepare our income tax returns and determine whether we are eligible to make them. End of the day, I am probably going to go with the 529 contributions since they are bird in hand, versus shooting for 2 in the bush with the pre-payment of our 2018 property tax.

    For those of you looking for deductions in 2017, there might be some more solid deductions versus pre-paying your 2018 real property taxes on your residence.

    Remember, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Consult your own tax preparer/attorney before deciding what you will do with the remaining 4 days of the year.
     

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