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  • Scorpion777

    Marine Veteran
    Dec 1, 2017
    25
    good info thank you very much brother!

    EDIT :

    i'm an idiot and thought i was multi quoting but thanks guys i appreciate the information you are real solid!
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    You guys who keep saying you cannot stop while transporting.

    Please provide the cite.

    You can't because there is no prohibition on stops in MD 4-203
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    You guys who keep saying you cannot stop while transporting.

    Please provide the cite.

    You can't because there is no prohibition on stops in MD 4-203


    It's implicit.
    4-203 states:
    " (3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
    (4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; (5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster; (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;"

    You can go to and from certain places. It doesn't say you can go from your house to the range and then from the range to a diner and then to home. The exact language is, "on the way to, or returning from that activity."

    IANAL, but I don't see any clear language that allows you to stop along the way.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    I think you mean implied, and I disagree. Laws are written to tell you what you cannot do, not what you can do.

    Like the exceptions, if it's not explicitly prohibited, it's allowed.

    Federal courts have held that brief stops don't violate FOPA. I believe the same would apply to the MD statute.

    By your very quote, "on the way to" doesn't imply you cannot stop along the way.

    Origin and destination are also things that need to be examined, but certainly on the way to could encompass stops.

    IANAL either

    BTW there is no MD case law on the subject.
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    I think you mean implied, and I disagree. Laws are written to tell you what you cannot do, not what you can do.

    Like the exceptions, if it's not explicitly prohibited, it's allowed.

    Federal courts have held that brief stops don't violate FOPA. I believe the same would apply to the MD statute.

    By your very quote, "on the way to" doesn't imply you cannot stop along the way.

    Origin and destination are also things that need to be examined, but certainly on the way to could encompass stops.

    IANAL either

    BTW there is no MD case law on the subject.



    I meant implicit.

    That's the unfortunate thing about Maryland laws in general. People like us are willing to follow the laws. If they were more specific, we would have an easier time with compliance.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    In that case, the law is not implicit at all about stopping.Some states transport laws include the word "directly" to specify no stops.

    The MD statute contains no such language. Therefore stops are not specifically prohibited."On the way to and returning from" allow stops IMO.

    As with many laws, you should do what you feel is right.
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Some states transport laws include the word "directly" to specify no stops.

    The MD statute contains no such language. Therefore stops are not specifically prohibited."On the way to and returning from" allow stops IMO.

    As with many laws, you should do what you feel is right.



    Agreed. I just hate having to make assumptions.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Here is an excerpt from the NJ statute. Note it contains conditions on travel to and from, which the MD statute does not. I realize NJ is not MD, only to point out the way laws are constructed. With no additional conditions or other prohibitions on your trip, I don't see stops being illegal.

    IANAL and YMMV.
    .
     

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    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Here is an excerpt from the NJ statute. Note it contains conditions on travel to and from, which the MD statute does not. I realize NJ is not MD, only to point out the way laws are constructed. With no additional conditions or other prohibitions on your trip, I don't see stops being illegal.



    IANAL and YMMV.

    .



    I get your point and your perspective is quite reasonable. It is sad that a state like NJ can have that level of clarity and we can't.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Even the NJ statute is vague.

    What defines "reasonable and necessary"?

    These things are written by lawyers and IMO purposely vague to allow the govt to selectively prosecute citizens
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Even the NJ statute is vague.

    What defines "reasonable and necessary"?

    These things are written by lawyers and IMO purposely vague to allow the govt to selectively prosecute citizens



    Agreed 100%. Government of the politicians, by the politicians, and for the politicians.
     

    Mightydog

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Even the NJ statute is vague.

    What defines "reasonable and necessary"?

    These things are written by lawyers and IMO purposely vague to allow the govt to selectively prosecute citizens


    I guess if I'm passing a Wegmans and need a gallon of milk for the morning or passing Roys and want some chicken. Don't think it means if I'm passing the mall and want to do some Christmas shopping.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,233
    Carroll County
    I know what a judge might say.

    This actually happened not long ago. I'm afraid I can't cite the source, but it was in the news, and if you can't believe Threeband on the Internet, who can you believe?

    A guy in Northern Harford County was going shooting with a friend at the Delta, Pa. range. He had pistols and range gear loaded in his car, when he got a call from a friend who was stuck in Baltimore and needed a ride. So our hero deviated all the way from northern Harford way down into the city, where of course he was pulled over and the handguns were discovered.

    Yes, he was arrested and charged with illegal transport. However the charges were dropped, because, as the news article said, he was transporting within legal exemptions, that is, to the range. A mere 30 mile deviation in the opposite direction didn't change the fact that he was transporting legally. Of course, he had to be arrested first before the matter could be cleared up.

    Second example, several years ago. Guy takes his pistol and range bag to work, intending to shoot at Continental on his lunch break. Leaves office, shoots, goes back to office. Comes back to his car at the end of the day, finds car had been broken into and gun stolen. (No doubt someone followed him from the range.) The point is, the police said not a word about him doing anything remotely illegal or even questionable.

    This is not New Jersey. Don't imagine the law to be worse than it is.
     
    Welcome to the boards, just get used to your surroundings you will be fine their are many great people on here with lots of knowledge about a variety of things and sometimes it doesn't take long for a thread to get derailed lol. As for the crayons they aren't to picky if you need to nibble on them until the appetizers come out Semper Fi.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    I typed most of a post , realized I was too deep into dead horses, and started over.

    We can beat this horse until it's flatter than the deer the wife hit, and subsequently drove over @ 55mph , and have no more consensus than we started.

    Oversimplified for Actual New Residents-

    You ain't in Kansas any more . Even suitably unloaded , and suitably encased for transport , you have substantial limitations where , for what purposes, you may transport your Roscoe ( used ironically) .

    Bewary of asking details of routing & intermediate stops . Thousands of generally knowledgeable people , trying very hard to find difinative answers have cumulatively found there are no clear answers , and we argue this in good faith , as if it was dog riding in Ford vs cat riding in Chevy .
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,233
    Carroll County
    Notice even in the happy ending case I referred to (without a reference), the guy did get arrested. I also don't know if he ever got his guns back. I'll bet he didn't.

    Whatever the law may or may not be, no matter how legal you may know yourself to be, it's best the issue just doesn't come up at all.

    The first rule of transporting club is..
     

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