USMC Switching to HK

MikeTF · Feb 11, 2017

lazarus said:
Guys, try to read more carefully in the poorly written article and then do a search. The M27 is a replacement for the M249 SAW. It is NOT a replacement for the M4a1 the branches are rolling out nor for the M16a4.

woodline · Feb 11, 2017

lazarus said:
Guys, try to read more carefully in the poorly written article and then do a search. The M27 is a replacement for the M249 SAW. It is NOT a replacement for the M4a1 the branches are rolling out nor for the M16a4.

It is a squad automatic rifle. It blends in with the regular issue rifles and carbines so it is harder to pick out the squad machine gunner. It is also much lighter and more accurate.

The downside is loss of suppressing fire, which is why the Army is not planning to adopt it. The Marines are not planning to phase out the M249 entirely. They are replacing about 50% of the squad level MGs with the M27. I'd think a compensation would be if the Marines moved towards issuing some drum magazines, but maybe the reliability isn't there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle

I was aware of that, but since the conversation seemed to be entirely about replacing M4s with 416s, I assumed I'd missed something in the comments.

Our machine gunners always seemed happy with the Mk46. I don't see how a 416 would really fill a similar role, but I don't know Marine Corps infantry squad tactics at all.

clandestine · Feb 11, 2017

The Marines are looking to adopt the M27 Service Wide. That article may not expand on that in complete clarity, but it is being pushed.

Library Guy · Feb 11, 2017

I'm only a civilian. But since I pay taxes, I'm not ecstatic about seeing money going to a foreign company. With all the industry knowledge and familiarity with the AR, M4, M16, can't something just as good be produced domestically and cheaper?

TheBert · Feb 11, 2017

Library Guy said:
I'm only a civilian. But since I pay taxes, I'm not ecstatic about seeing money going to a foreign company. With all the industry knowledge and familiarity with the AR, M4, M16, can't something just as good be produced domestically and cheaper?

What about foreign countries spending their money on US weapon systems? Shouldn't they develop their own armaments capability and industry to supply their own needs so that they can keep their money in their own country?

atblis · Feb 11, 2017

Many countries are simply too small to develop and produce their own in a cost effective manner. Heck, the Brits can't even do it at this point.

Then there's the Indians.

lazarus · Feb 11, 2017

clandestine said:
The Marines are looking to adopt the M27 Service Wide. That article may not expand on that in complete clarity, but it is being pushed.

There is some push for this, but the 11,000 being purchased is to replace roughly half the SAW in service with the USMC. The article just isn't well written and confusing as heck. I had heard about it before I I scratched my head reading the article and then did more searching afterwards and found tons of other articles that make no mention of replacing the M4 or at most that a few people would prefer just replacing the M4 and dropping a SAW entirely. I suspect that isn't going to happen. The M27 is heavier and longer than the M4 and there is a reason the services moved from the 20" M16 to the 14.5" M4 (well, mostly).

I just think replacing the M249 with the M27 is also a bad choice. it seems like a better replacement for the M16 if it is going to replace anything.

lazarus · Feb 11, 2017

Library Guy said:
I'm only a civilian. But since I pay taxes, I'm not ecstatic about seeing money going to a foreign company. With all the industry knowledge and familiarity with the AR, M4, M16, can't something just as good be produced domestically and cheaper?

FN has been produce the M4, M16 and M249 for awhile now.

I sort of agree with you, but then again if they are producing a better quality weapon or cheaper or both, it does save Tax payers money in the end.

Library Guy · Feb 11, 2017

lazarus said:
...if they are producing a better quality weapon or cheaper or both, it does save Tax payers money in the end.

Agreed. If.

Combloc · Feb 11, 2017

The FN's are produced in South Carolina. It may be a foreign company but at least they're made by American workers. In fact, judging by the markings on my 249, it looks like the receiver may actually be made in Michigan.

lazarus · Feb 12, 2017

Combloc said:
The FN's are produced in South Carolina. It may be a foreign company but at least they're made by American workers. In fact, judging by the markings on my 249, it looks like the receiver may actually be made in Michigan.

That's been the military's deal for quite awhile. They buy a lot of "foreign made" arms and munitions, but for the most part they require companies to manufacture them in the US for several reasons.

Racer Doug14 · Feb 12, 2017

As a US tax payer, I see absolutely no reason to spend more of our money for a .6% lower failure rate. Obviously a solution looking for problem. I never had a problem with my M16a1 or a2 while serving,and it was used in harsh environments. Kind of the same thing with the sidearm. The problem is not the M9 it's the caliber, in so far as the round.

USMC0311 · Mar 22, 2017

I'm also a tax payer and a marine vet that was getting out when the m27 was introduced. I see the dilemma about the stoppages for the money but shooting both the accuracy and all around greatness of the rifle is well worth it. I don't think it's a good replacement for the saw because in a firefight the sound of 2 or 3 saws running cyclic will keep anybody's head down. But as a overall weapon I think it will out perform the m4s 10-1.

clandestine · Mar 22, 2017

According to this guy who requested the test results via FOIA, the HK was NOT more reliable than the Colt.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/19...Rifle--Colt-as-reliable-as-HandK-.html&page=1

DC-W · Mar 22, 2017

What happened to "buy American first"?

Alphabrew · Mar 22, 2017

Bad idea

Major03 · Mar 22, 2017

I would not want to replace a belt fed SAW that has 200 rds ready to go with an automatic rifle that is magazine fed. While technically the SAW isn't a machine gun, since it typically doesn't sit on a tripod with a T&E mechanism...for all extents and purposes it's a light weight machine gun. I think we're giving up a lot of firepower at the squad level.

Mr.Blue · Mar 22, 2017

ericoak said:
Most over rated firearm company ever in my opinion.

^This. I wish they'd give an American company like LWRC the contract. Not sure if they gave them a shot, so I'm ignorant as to the results. Sick of seeing Beretta, Sig, HK, and FN get the contracts.

3paul10 · Mar 22, 2017

You go Chad. :party29:

omegared24 · Mar 22, 2017

USMC0311 said:
But as a overall weapon I think it will out perform the m4s 10-1.

10x better? That's funny.

USMC Switching to HK

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