AR 15 Accuracy Level To Aspire To

Robmyaing · Jan 15, 2018

Any thoughts on what accuracy level a recreational AR 15 shooter should aspire to? Distance, target size, standing, sitting with a rifle rest, #of rounds which should hit target, etc.?
All responses are appreciated.

ROBAR35 · Jan 15, 2018

I would say MOA out to 600yds. Would be respectable from bench or prone. 2 MOA offhand standing.

outrider58 · Jan 15, 2018

ROBAR35 said:
I would say MOA out to 600yds. Would be respectable from bench or prone. 2 MOA offhand standing.

I agree on the 1 MOA-bench and prone. 2 MOA standing? I got some practicing to do. :innocent0

Melnic · Jan 15, 2018

outrider58 said:
I agree on the 1 MOA-bench and prone. 2 MOA standing? I got some practicing to do.

No kidding. I'm happy hitting a 12" torso target @ 100 yards offhand 9 out of 10 rounds. (with good visibility). that's with peep sights. But I don't think I'd do that much better with a low mag scope either.

John from MD · Jan 15, 2018

Minute of Gook? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

This all depends on what kind of shooting you do, what kind of equipment you use, how much you plan to practice and a bunch of other variables. The first thing you should do, is find out what your rifle is capable of with the best ammo you plan to use. If the rifle can only do 4 MOA, then it would be impossible to train for anything better. Conversely, if you are capable of only 4MOA and your rifle will shoot MOA, you will still only shoot 4 MOA.

Once you find out how well the rifle shoots, then you need to set practice. If you have never received formal rifle training, I suggest doing so or you won't know the proper positions, hold, breathing etc.

Once you get that down, you need to start practicing with the goal of touching off the 100th round the same way as the 1st round.

If you get a chance drive over to AGC when they are having a CMP shoot so you can watch the coaches work with the shooters.

Good luck to you.

ROBAR35 · Jan 15, 2018

outrider58 said:
I agree on the 1 MOA-bench and prone. 2 MOA standing? I got some practicing to do.

Yep agreed, 3-4 MOA standing offhand is probably more realistic unless you are training for it weekly.

Ranchero50 · Jan 15, 2018

Accuracy to me is minute of pie plate at 10 yards as fast as I can fire that accurately. I'm more concerned about timing my trigger to the cadence of the muzzle rise so as the muzzle is coming back down the rifle fires as it goes across the target.

ToolAA · Jan 15, 2018

Robmyaing said:
Any thoughts on what accuracy level a recreational AR 15 shooter should aspire to? Distance, target size, standing, sitting with a rifle rest, #of rounds which should hit target, etc.?

All responses are appreciated.

Don’t get too wrapped up on MOA. If you consider NRA high power match targets as a guide it might give you some insight here.

For offhand standing a regulation match would be at 200yds. The target dimensions would be as follows

X Ring is 3.0” Dia (1.5 MOA)
10 Ring is 7” Dia (3.5 MOA)
9 Ring is 13” Dia (6.5 MOA)
8 Ring is 19” Dia (9.5 MOA)

If you consider that the offhand portion of a match would have 10 rounds for score. If you shot 3.5 MOA you would score 100pts which would be High Master. Setting an expectation of 4 MOA offhand would probably be unrealistic for a new shooter. Especially without the proper equipment.

Lets say you shot 10 shots 3-8’s, 3-9’s, 2-10’s and 2-X’s. That would be a score of 91 which is Sharpshooter. If you could do that consistently you would be competitive. However technically you are shooting at 9.5 MOA which doesn’t sound so great.

Take a quick look at prone shooting sizes for a standard 600yd target.
X ring 6” (1 MOA)
10 ring 12” (2 MOA)
9 Ring 18” (3 MOA)

I’ve scored guys hitting 15 shots in the X/10 rings and having 5 shots in the 9’s. Thats a match score of 195 which is High Master. However they are still shooting 3 MOA. Actually quite impressive using Iron Sights at 600 yds where the 3ft diameter target is smaller that the front sight post on a standard AR.

Like someone mentioned check out a CMP or NRA match at AGC. They do have some charity match in September where anyone can shoot in the match with any Center fire rifle.

Good luck shooting.

j_h_smith · Jan 15, 2018

I believe that most modern day AR15 rifles can outshoot their owners. The rifle usually isn't the problem when it comes to accuracy.

JohnnyE · Jan 15, 2018

It takes time and effort to learn what you and the rifle can do.

Whenever I'm starting out with a new rifle, I try to isolate my capabilities from those of the rifle. I'll sandbag the heck out of the rifle, and touch off enough rounds to begin to understand what the rifle itself is capable of. I try to reduce my impact on the equation. I'll end up running as many different types of ammunition through it as I can to see what it likes to eat. Fatigue can be a factor, and it will take several range sessions to sort it out, and then confirm the findings.

With my slowly built-up Ruger 10/22, (it took a year to select, acquire and assemble the parts), I ran about 40 different factory .22 LR loads through it before I found what that rifle likes. I tried the lowliest bucket bullets through the top of the line Lapua and Eley rounds. It was worth the effort, as the top choices give me 5mm groups at 50 yards, and 12mm groups at 100 yards. The most expensive ammo did not win in the end.

The same effort went into my AR's. A Colt LE 6920 with a Geissele SD-3G and 18x Vortex scope managed 4.25" groups at 600 yards using Black Hills 77 gr. OTM. That's incredible performance out of a Colt carbine. My precision-built AR does even better, but that took two years for me to build. I LOVE this rifle! It, too, likes the BH 77 OTM, though the Hornady 75 gr. BTHP holds groups just as close, though it does take dialing in an additional 0.1 mrad on the scope at 600 yards. I am looking forward to stretching its legs a bit more at Peacemaker.

Once I've learned the rifle and which ammo it prefers, I can get to work on improving myself. 45 years of effort and I'm still at it. Take your time and see what you and the rifle can do.

rob-cubed · Jan 15, 2018

I would echo the 1 MOA goal as an aimed slow-fire prone or supported goal. But also Rachero50's point that speed on target or multiple targets at shorter distances is the more practical answer.

Two completely different and valid things to aspire to do well.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 16, 2018

I am only slightly tongue in cheek to say - " Whatever you are enjoying while you do it " .

Just in this thread about recreational shooting , we have discussion of both 600yd slow fire , and small r rapid fire at tobacco spitting distance , and both of them are recreating themselves .

But trying to mindread the OP , and guesstimate what he really wanted to ask instead , I will reframe :

What are reasonable benchmarks to indicate a level of * Reasonably Adaquate * skills , with a typical consumer grade mid to lower mid $ AR-15 ?

Bench or prone with sling , 1.5in @ 100yd .
Offhand , 3.5/ 5 shots into 6in target @ 100yd , with misses still being fairly close .

Increase those sizes by 50% , consider yourself " kinda ok " .

photoracer · Jan 16, 2018

When I was sighting in my competition 3-gun AR I decided that the true test of accuracy would be to be able to do something that the 3-gun sport was likely to require you to be able to do with the rifle. And that would be to see how accurate and how fast you could shoot 10 rounds off at an NRA silhouette target (didn't have any steel targets at the time) at 300 yards with the front of the rifle resting on a barricade. 1-4x BDC scope at 4x shooting about a round every 1-1.5 seconds I managed to get 8/10 in the 10 ring and 2 in the 9-ring on the first try after spending a couple hours getting it sighted in. That was using WM Fed .223, about the cheapest ammo there was at the time. That was pulling the trigger as soon as the 300y dot got back onto the center of the target. Never sighted it in again until I upped the scope to a 1.5-6X one. Obviously I would have used a different test if the rifle was going to be used for something else, but for 3-gun or LR HD that was good enough.

jimbobborg · Jan 16, 2018

When you can hit a paintball at 200 yards, prone with bipod, let me know.

dreadpirate · Jan 16, 2018

ROBAR35 said:
Yep agreed, 3-4 MOA standing offhand is probably more realistic unless you are training for it weekly.

I would have said 4 for offhand.

tdt91 · Jan 16, 2018

ROBAR35 said:
I would say MOA out to 600yds. Would be respectable from bench or prone. 2 MOA offhand standing.

Robar, you are either the best shot in the world or you been watching too many movies. Remember, he said a basic AR, not a high performance target model.

ToolAA · Jan 16, 2018

jimbobborg said:
When you can hit a paintball at 200 yards, prone with bipod, let me know.

How many shots do I get?

This is .37 MOA group at 500yds on a slightly windy day. I’m thinking I could hit a paintball in 5 shots or less. I did have another MDS member spotting me, which helps.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ToolAA · Jan 16, 2018

dreadpirate said:
I would have said 4 for offhand.

If you are consistently shooting 4 MOA Offhand you are shooting at High Master NRA Competition level.

woodline · Jan 16, 2018

As everyone else has said, it depends. The AR15 in .223/5.56 is an inherently accurate rifle, as far as semi-auto weapons go. For slow supported fire, I would aspire to whatever accuracy the rifle I am shooting is capable of, given my handicaps. For a nice properly free floated AR that is not specifically set up as a precision rig, one could expect the rifle to be capable of sub MOA accuracy at reasonable distance, maybe 50 out to 200 or 300 yards. If it's real cheap and not free floated, 1.5-2.5 MOA might be your eventual realistic upper limit. If it shoots much worse than that, it's maybe time to change yourself, your ammo, your sighting system, or start upgrading the gun (or get rid of it and get something nicer).

For offhand, the question gets more complicated. If you're doing something dynamic (2 gun, 3 gun, operating operationally doing some CQB, whatever), chances are you'll hit other barriers that impede your success long before you need to worry about eking out every last ounce of accuracy that your rifle is capable of. If you're shooting static offhand, your accuracy standards might be in between the two extremes, but would still vary based on shooting position (unless your last name is Miculek, Barnhart, etc).

It is maybe less than helpful, but the standard to which I aspire with my firearms is to exceed their capability to facilitate doing whatever it is I am doing. With an AR15, that might take awhile unless you do precision stuff. So far I haven't really made any of my guns the weak link, though I have definitely grown to the point that I need better optics or sights on a couple of them, because the gun and I can shoot farther and with better precision and accuracy than current the sighting system lets me see. Then again, I've noticed as I work out to longer and longer ranges with harder shooting problems, I can stretch the sights or glass out to longer distances bit by bit. So maybe in a couple years I will feel differently.

woodline · Jan 16, 2018

ToolAA said:
If you are consistently shooting 4 MOA Offhand you are shooting at High Master NRA Competition level.

That is a pretty lofty goal. The military standard for a prone supported group is roughly 1 inch at 25 yards, or about 4 MOA-ish if you bother to confirm zero at 100, 200, or 300 yards (depending on what sights/optics you are using). For offhand, I don't think doubling that (or even a bit more) would be ridiculous. Something around 8-10 MOA with iron sights or even a red dot seems like a good starting goal for off hand. That's still going to hit a man sized target at 200 yards most of the time.

AR 15 Accuracy Level To Aspire To

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