I'm in favor of mandatory training to own a gun

Woody said:

That isn't the point...
Do you get advanced training in driving? Should everyone? Would save a lot more lives after all...

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as a matter of fact i did. when we pulled up in japan, i was directed to get a license to drive there. thanks for the reminder.

I think the same person is talking to himself.

woodstock said:

as a matter of fact i did. when we pulled up in japan, i was directed to get a license to drive there. thanks for the reminder.

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Then shouldn't we require everyone to?


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Woody said:

Then shouldn't we require everyone to?


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if ya want to drive in japan, you'll have to get the MANDATORY training.

Woody said:

That isn't the point...
Do you get advanced training in driving? Should everyone? Would save a lot more lives after all...

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Excellent point. It might help. Folks with the desire and aptitude can significantly improve their skills and decision making by taking advanced driving courses, as well as all sorts of other areas of interest. I've been to several high performance and accident avoidance driving schools, and have seen some folks there who probably shouldn't even be behind the wheel in the first place, but they passed their state's minimum standards so they got a license to drive. I'd have to imagine that the same would apply to folks who get firearms training. Just because someone passes the HQL doesn't mean that they'll make good decisions, or that they'll be safe or competent with a firearm.

My point is that education and training don't always make folks better or smarter at a particular skill. Some folks have it, and some don't.

clandestine said:

I think the same person is talking to himself.

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Hammer Time?

woodstock said:

if ya want to drive in japan, you'll have to get the MANDATORY training. 2:

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I used to have conversations like this with my Ex...

Once the questions reveal the weakness in the point, they just get deflected with wtf...

Personal responsibility... It's a wonderful thing.

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Mr. Ed said:

Excellent point. It might help. Folks with the desire and aptitude can significantly improve their skills and decision making by taking advanced driving courses, as well as all sorts of other areas of interest. I've been to several high performance and accident avoidance driving schools, and have seen some folks there who probably shouldn't even be behind the wheel in the first place, but they passed their state's minimum standards so they got a license to drive. I'd have to imagine that the same would apply to folks who get firearms training. Just because someone passes the HQL doesn't mean that they'll make good decisions, or that they'll be safe or competent with a firearm.

My point is that education and training don't always make folks better or smarter at a particular skill. Some folks have it, and some don't.

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yep, yup and yes. but at the end of the day, gun ownership is a responsibility to not be taken lightly. the cavalier attitude i have witnessed on these forums were the inspiration to this thread. more to come...

Some of the time, maybe a lot, folks post stuff that might sound cavalier. Heck, we come here for info and a good time. But I bet if we actually get together face to face, most of us are pretty darn serious about safety. So, in the spirit of keeping things light, I offer:

Mr. Ed said:

Some of the time, maybe a lot, folks post stuff that might sound cavalier. Heck, we come here for info and a good time. But I bet if we actually get together face to face, most of us are pretty darn serious about safety. So, in the spirit of keeping things light, I offer:

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I'll drink to that... I'd bet statically this is a pretty exceptionally conscientious group when it comes to personal firearm responsibility.
Cheers to all.

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woodstock said:

has your training been beneficial?

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To the performance of my job, yes.

You are advocating for a world that is perfect, but not possible.
With rights come responsibilities. If you choose to vote it is incumbent upon you to learn about those you intend to vote for. If you intend to speak in public it is incumbent for you to learn about the topics on which you intend to speak. If you intend to be armed, as is your right, it is incumbent upon you to be proficient in the arms with which you have provided yourself.

This is not a perfect society.

If you use your first amendment to say something ridiculous, you are subject to the community's backlash against what you have said. You are still entitled to your statement/ opinion.

If you do stupid stuff with a firearm on a range, you will be corrected/ kicked off until you show a proficiency. This restriction from the range (a private establishment) does not restrict your 2nd amendment right under the Constitution.

I am a firm believer that anybody who owned a firearm SHOULD have a solid set of training on the tools they have available to them. I firmly believe that only people who have researched all of the people running for office, and have read and understand the constitution should vote. I truly sympathize with the content of your primary post (yes, I did read it all) BUT, when it comes to a Government deciding what is acceptable as far as training goes... I can not abide that.

If the Government can decide today that I need XYZ, to own a gun, tomorrow It can decide I need NEED to have a ridiculous, totally unattainable standard, to be be able own what is a right of all American Citizens.

"If the Government can decide today that I need XYZ, to own a gun, tomorrow It can decide I need NEED to have a ridiculous, totally unattainable standard, to be be able own what is a right of all American Citizens." and this my friends is the conundrum. thank you webb...

woodstock said:

curious to know: how did you learn to say and spell your name?

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From my parents. I could already read and write fairly well long before entering Kindergarten.

Besides that, I'm not exactly sure *what* you're trying to fix with mandatory training? Responsible gun owners typically already seek training, and new gun owners generally (statistically) turn into responsible ones...specific subjective examples aside. Around 600 people die every year from an accidental shooting - plus unknown numbers of NDs, and ~70k injuries. That's with hundreds of millions of guns in the U.S. and tens of millions sold every year recently (~27M in 2016). Those "whoopsie" numbers sound significant alone, but in context are staggeringly low. We get 'mandatory' training on how to operate cars, yet over 1M people die every year from car crashes and an additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled, despite there being only ~250 million cars.

Then, who decides what training is mandatory? Everyone in America should go through *your* training program? You'd have good luck in Maryland - we already have to buy specific locks when buying a pistol, deal with the "chosen" businesses that get help from state/local govs using eminent domain against their competitors, etc. etc. Maryland loves crony capitalism!

The bottom line is, natural rights are not granted by the government, as you seem to think. They are natural - granted by God (or, if you're Atheist, by virtue of your humanity). They simply exist - with or without a government. The constitution merely guarantees them. There was no federal school system for most of our nation's history - did we still have the right to free speech? White males (and later females and African Americans) have had the right to vote - have they always been schooled on civics, economics, etc.? I was unaware that every voter was a MENSA member and PhD holder.

I'm not saying education is BAD. It isn't. It simply comes down to your world view. I believe that individuals operating under their own utility maximization can, as a whole, make better choices than the government. You seem to disagree - that's okay. But just as our education system has been morphed into anti-boy, pro-sjw, pro-indoctrination, participation trophy safe spaces - you can bet your "mandatory training" in Maryland will consist of "guns are bad, and you should never own one."

EDIT: additionally, you have to look at how things have changed since the education you mention has been 'mandatory' and established. We're more educated than ever, and we've gone from voting for presidents like Lincoln and Reagan, to an election between HRC and Trump - imho (unpopular opinion warning) two of the worst candidates to ever run for office.

You know, stuff is just a PG version of a different word


This thread brings that other word to mind

"I'm not saying education is BAD. It isn't. It simply comes down to your world view. I believe that individuals operating under their own utility maximization can, as a whole, make better choices than the government. You seem to disagree - that's okay. But just as our education system has been morphed into anti-boy, pro-sjw, pro-indoctrination, participation trophy safe spaces - you can bet your "mandatory training" in Maryland will consist of "guns are bad, and you should never own one." to the contrary Callidus, my world view is much like yours, but because i have witnessed the most unbelievable scenarios concerning gun ownership, i think i am at a loss as to the answer.

The premise seems to be that people "used to be responsible", but the way things are now something has to be done. My limited googling skills couldn't find a chart, but this article from last year says that accidental firearm deaths are at an all time low since they started keeping records in 1903. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/30/as-gun-sales-rise-accidental-gun-deaths-drop-to-record-levels-report-says.html

It's a big country, so it's very easy to find examples of any kind of behavior you like to illustrate a point, but that doesn't make it statistically significant. Not that statistical significance is a valid argument for infringing a right.

Like others, I'm all for training, but not for more nanny state mandates.

woodstock said:

"If the Government can decide today that I need XYZ, to own a gun, tomorrow It can decide I need NEED to have a ridiculous, totally unattainable standard, to be be able own what is a right of all American Citizens." and this my friends is the conundrum. thank you webb...

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woodstock said:

"If the Government can decide today that I need XYZ, to own a gun, tomorrow It can decide I need NEED to have a ridiculous, totally unattainable standard, to be be able own what is a right of all American Citizens." and this my friends is the conundrum. thank you webb...

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What are you thanking me for?

I was suggesting that while training is a great idea, the Government requiring (legislating) a certain level, is a really bad (horrible) idea.

I am trained for the firearms I own. I have trained others in the use of the arms under their care. I am not a certified trainer, but I know what I am doing. I have trained a mother in the use of the Rem 870 in her closet, and provided her a lock so she could be safe, and able to defend her family.

Do you expect her to go though a 16 hr class? Do you expect that everyone who wants to defend themselves go through what you (or a government, but maybe I am touching on something) , feel is an acceptable training class?

Can I not train them? How can you know what I have taught them?

Can not others more capable than me, or you.., but not necessarily recognized by the government train them?

If you start down the slippery slope, you end up on your face.....

clandestine said:

If you feel so strongly about your position Woodstock, please attach you Name and Training Company's name to it.

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Rudi Dekkers? Huffman Aviation?


Woodstock, your "reading/writing" arguments remind of of the "you didn't make that", "you didn't build that", "you didn't grow that", it takes a village "stuff" O was spouting a few years ago. I learned to speak from my parents and all those who spoke within earshot when I was a wee baby. My mother taught me to count, read, and write prior to any formal schooling. My father, uncles and grandfathers taught me to handle firearms safely. There are alternatives to the mandatory training you're advocating.

I'm confused. Is this thread really about mandatory regulated training for phone charging in the bathroom with extension cords and popcorn?

BTW driving is a privilege not a right.

This thread is dildos