AR's, twist rates, and bullet weights

erwos said:

Because everyone is an operating operator who operates by slinging 77gr SMKs at 800yds.

Here's the real answer: it's nice having the option to use 62gr when it's available, and if you've made that decision, you may as well go with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist rate.

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iH8DemLibz said:

Sada approves.

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iH8DemLibz said:

Sada approves.

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erwos said:

Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.

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erwos said:

Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.

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DetectiveWildman said:

So while heading home on the train i went down the rabbit hole on these subjects and need some clarification. As it was designed, the ar was built around a 20" barrel with a 1/12 twist and a 50? Grain bullet for high velocity and reliable, of course not garunteed, fragmentation. I believe they were also FMJ as well? Apparently even though the gun itself had its struggles initially the wound channels eith this set up were apparently quite incredible. Given that FMJ is the cheapest, why dont you see these setups more? Wpuldnt that combo give you the best across the board as far as plinking accuracy and hunting/home defense? I get that the1:9 is kinda the jack of all when it comes to bullet weights and the shorter barrels in urban combat and the like, but wouldnt the 20" 1/12 45-55 grain get the most out of the platforn as intended? Or am i missing something obvious?

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3paul10 said:

I think it's Voda

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erwos said:

Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.

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TheOriginalMexicanBob said:

The original AR-15 was designed with a 1:14" rate of twist. When tested the Air Force wanted a change as with the 1:14" twist a 55 grain bullet was barely stable and in cold temperatures the rifle's accuracy could not be within standards. Since the USAF operates bases all around the world with many is extremely cold environments they requested the change and the Army concurred so the change was made. There are claims that the change in twist rate reduced the lethality of the rifle by 40%...true or not I can't say. There were early reports from Vietnam that the AR-15 (pre-M16) was much prized for its ability to be devastating in a human target.

You can probably still get 1:14" barrels from custom makers. Olympic Arms used to make them available for special order in their rifles. Maybe they still do.

All I can say is any bullet weight and design out of any AR rifles...regardless of rate of twist...is gonna hurt.

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herkybird72 said:

Just an fyi Olympic Arms is now out of buisness.

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erwos said:

Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.

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iH8DemLibz said:

I hope you were wearing a pair of khaki cargo pants, a black polo shirt, and a pair of available on TV only tactical sun glasses.

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TheOriginalMexicanBob said:

The original AR-15 was designed with a 1:14" rate of twist. When tested the Air Force wanted a change as with the 1:14" twist a 55 grain bullet was barely stable....

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erwos said:

HOW DARE YOU SIR. Our tactical security force wears only the finest 5.11 Tactical apparel! 5.11's concealed-carry-friendly clothes allow us to seamlessly blend into crowds while I carry the "deadly duo" of a Glock 26 and a Glock 34 MOS Gen5 w/ RMR Type-2 carefully hidden in Fobus IWB and AIWB holsters, along with several 33rd Glock magazines for extended firefights. That's in addition to our standard loadout of Kel-Tec SU-16s with twelve 40rd C-Products mags filled with Tula 55gr. I've found them extremely reliable, far more so than the trashy Sig Rattlers with Magpul Gen3s we've eval'd - Mk318 Mod 0 rounds kept going nose-up while feeding in those POS, not that they were all that accurate anyways. In order to keep our low-profile in these urban operations, we've rattle-canned the SU-16s in "stealth grey". We deploy them with shortened stocks, heli-crew-style.

Let me tell you, you can mock us all you want, but we're keeping you SAFE out there. Just the other day, we had a "situation" in the movie theater. The deputy mayor's stepson had a suspicious man with a boner sit next to him and look at him inappropriately. The mall ownership called in FBI HRT, but the feds were overpowered by the thick doors of screen 7 and overwhelming scent of buttered popcorn. My team did a forced entry with C4, put down the perp, and saved the boy's anal virginity. HRT thanked us later in a secret ceremony where we demonstrated some techniques that they use to this day.

I don't call myself a hero, but I guess I've heard others say it. Just doing my job in the increasingly violent world of retail security.

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