HB888 - grandfather clause for bump stocks

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

Too funny. I thought the bill was decently thought out, but for the ATF requirement for grandfathering. I especially liked:

“RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR” DOES NOT INCLUDE A SEMIAUTOMATIC REPLACEMENT TRIGGER THAT IMPROVES THE PERFORMANCE AND FUNCTIONALITY OVER THE STOCK TRIGGER.

I was giving the General Assembly credit for that sentence. Then, I read the MSI newsletter that just hit my inbox and it says that MSI was responsible for that amendment. Yep, back to wanting to move out of Maryland. Just really hard to believe that a bunch of attorneys cannot draft better legislation than what I am seeing.

danb · Mar 17, 2018

Nobody knew or cared about bump stocks or binary triggers until MD decided to ban them. lol. Now they are hot.

Jimboy said:
Dear ATF,
I'm applying for your permission to own a piece of plastic with no serial number that may or may not speed up the rate of fire of an unattached firearm to equal that of unknown person Jerry Miculek, to comply with MD law which may or may not be constitutional.
Please send me a free stamp.
Your loving servant
Mr. X

Then ATF responded:

Dearest Mr X
You're approved! We know how silly your MD legislaors are, especially when they tell US at ATF what we gotta do. We already wrote our letter approving bumpstocks and other trigger activators. It's on our website, at least it was (not sure if Russian hackers have taken it yet).
Just show that to MD for your approval letter.

Sincerely,
Trump's new ATF

^^ this.

My 0.02: the language was drafted in case the ATF decides to make bump stocks etc. NFA items. DOJ has submitted regulations, but they are not public yet.

It would not surprise me that some people had some inside knowledge of what the ATF proposed for bump stocks.

IF the ATF makes these NFA items, apply and pay tax, before Oct 1 2018, case closed. IF they remain "tax free" (strictly speaking NFA application is a tax and registration, not "authorization") then "application" is vacuous here. You: "Can I have it without a tax" ATF: "Yes you can." easy peasy.

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

rseymorejr said:
You know Maryland laws are really F'd up when an attorney has to go on an internet forum to get clarification!

I actually do not need help interpreting the bill, and I know better than to come to this board and ask for help interpreting stuff. I learned my lesson on my SBR applications. Really should have done a Form 1 on my pre-ban lowers so I would have been allowed to use any length/diameter barrel on them so long as they remained 29" OAL. Instead, I listened to "why use a pre-ban lower for a SBR when you can get a new lower for an SBR." which now has me conflicted in using anything but a HBAR barrel on a SBR build.

This post is more for public awareness purposes. How does one get a bump stock, binary trigger, etc. approved by the ATF?

How do I apply to the ATF before October 1, 2018 for authorization to use a bump stock,a binary trigger, etc. Is ATF approval actually needed at this time? Is ATF approval even possible?

I am hoping that this bill does not pass. However, if it does, I am hoping that they can at least amend this language such that they are not asking us to do something that is impossible.

They could just scrap prong 2 entirely and it would be covered under prong 3 IF there is any federal requirement whatsoever for an application to the ATF.

Prong 3: IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR POSSESSION OF A RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR.

Maryland, a haven for criminals, illegal immigrants, and attorneys due to the crappy legislation that is continually drafted.

danb · Mar 17, 2018

Also, the amendments to the Senate version look identical to the House and are online now. This will pass, likely without need for a conference, and Hogan will sign it.

And a lawsuit is extraordinarily unlikely to succeed. So dont count on it. Certainly it wont succeed by Oct 1 2018.

danb · Mar 17, 2018

fabsroman said:
I am hoping that this bill does not pass. However, if it does, I am hoping that they can at least amend this language such that they are not asking us to do something that is impossible.

Are they asking the impossible? What is the legal definition of "application"? Its nothing more than a formal request. Formally request whether you need to get a stamp for your binary trigger after the new rules come out. Their reply tells you the answer.

This will pass in the current form 99% chance. With a lot of Republicans voting for it too.

Schipperke · Mar 17, 2018

Some should read some possession bans on magazines in a few states. An item does not have to be serialized to be grandfathered. Laws elsewhere are written with possesion constructively banned, without having to actually take the piece of property, but the item can never be sold or transferred. Can be as simple as it can't leave your home etc. We are lucky the Maryland legislators are pretty lazy.

danb · Mar 17, 2018

Schipperke said:
Laws elsewhere are written with possesion constructively banned, without having to actually take the piece of property, but the item can never be sold or transferred. Can be as simple as it can't leave your home etc. We are lucky the Maryland legislators are pretty lazy.

True, but even the liberal 9th circuit struck that down as an illegal taking. Among other things. That opinion is floating around and no doubt had some bearing on this.

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

danb said:
Also, the amendments to the Senate version look identical to the House and are online now. This will pass, likely without need for a conference, and Hogan will sign it.

And a lawsuit is extraordinarily unlikely to succeed. So dont count on it. Certainly it wont succeed by Oct 1 2018.

Yep, I guess we will all need to create our own application procedure.

Dear ATF Agent:

Pursuant to Md. Crim Law section 4-305.1(B)(2), I am writing to the ATF to obtain authorization to possess a "Rapid Fire Trigger Activator", which Md. Crim Law section 4-301 defines as :

“RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR” MEANS ANY DEVICE, INCLUDING A REMOVABLE MANUAL OR POWER–DRIVEN ACTIVATING DEVICE, CONSTRUCTED SO THAT, WHEN INSTALLED IN OR ATTACHED TO A FIREARM: (I) THE RATE AT WHICH THE TRIGGER IS ACTIVATED INCREASES; OR (II) THE RATE OF FIRE INCREASES.

“RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR” INCLUDES A BUMP STOCK, TRIGGER CRANK, HELLFIRE TRIGGER, BINARY TRIGGER SYSTEM, BURST TRIGGER SYSTEM, OR A COPY OR A SIMILAR DEVICE, REGARDLESS OF THE PRODUCER OR MANUFACTURER.

“BUMP STOCK” MEANS A DEVICE THAT, WHEN INSTALLED IN OR ATTACHED TO A FIREARM, INCREASES THE RATE OF FIRE OF THE FIREARM BY USING
16 ENERGY FROM THE RECOIL OF THE FIREARM TO GENERATE A RECIPROCATING ACTION THAT FACILITATES REPEATED ACTIVATION OF THE TRIGGER.

“BURST TRIGGER SYSTEM” MEANS A DEVICE THAT, WHEN INSTALLED IN
OR ATTACHED TO A FIREARM, ALLOWS THE FIREARM TO DISCHARGE TWO OR MORE SHOTS WITH A SINGLE PULL OF THE TRIGGER BY ALTERING THE TRIGGER RESET.

.....

As a result, I am eagerly awaiting the ATF's authorization for me to possess a "Rapid Fire Trigger Activator".

Very truly yours,

Fabsroman

I am looking at the bill and there appears to be two different drafts of Md Crim Law 305.1. One is impossible to satisfy. Just wondering what the one at the bottom of the bill is for:

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018RS/bills/hb/hb0888t.pdf

My headache went away, and now it is coming back.

MigraineMan · Mar 17, 2018

fabsroman said:
My headache went away, and now it is coming back.

Expect that to happen more than once ...

Schipperke · Mar 17, 2018

danb said:
True, but even the liberal 9th circuit struck that down as an illegal taking. Among other things. That opinion is floating around and no doubt had some bearing on this.

You must be pointing to California.

NJ bans possession of Mags over 15 rds, read their law. NJ and other states grandfather magazines. You can't go buy one and bring it back though. I think DC has strict possession law of magazine capacity too.

danb · Mar 17, 2018

Tax season is around the corner. I expect to look at my return and get an even bigger headache.

outrider58 · Mar 17, 2018

Jimboy said:
Dear ATF,
I'm applying for your permission to own a piece of plastic with no serial number that may or may not speed up the rate of fire of an unattached firearm to equal that of unknown person Jerry Miculek, to comply with MD law which may or may not be constitutional.
Please send me a free stamp.
Your loving servant
Mr. X

Then ATF responded:

Dearest Mr X
You're approved! We know how silly your MD legislaors are, especially when they tell US at ATF what we gotta do. We already wrote our letter approving bumpstocks and other trigger activators. It's on our website, at least it was (not sure if Russian hackers have taken it yet).
Just show that to MD for your approval letter.

Sincerely,
Trump's new ATF

Rack&Roll · Mar 17, 2018

Fabs: You cannot apply to the ATF to obtain authorization.... for an authorization that DOES NOT EXIST.

Please Google "Obama Stash"...

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

danb said:
Tax season is around the corner. I expect to look at my return and get an even bigger headache.

lol - It might be around the corner for you. I am neck deep in returns and I filed my own at the beginning of February. Meanwhile, my wife is sending me listings of lots and custom homes to think about after tax season is over, and here I am debating whether I want to live in Maryland. Probably a fruitless debate as always, but a debate nonetheless.

1ceman · Mar 17, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
To all within the sound of my voice, let this message go out to All The Nations:

I will be first in line to be the plaintiff to fight any Bump Stock / Rapid Fire Trigger Activation law in Maryland.

I do this as one of the few "Free Staters" who has been a WINNING plaintiff in a 2nd Amendment court case in Maryland. (How often does that happen?) .

As some of you may know, I acquired a Taser Pulse and filed suit as the plaintiff 14 months ago in the case filed in Anne Arundel Couny to smash the long-established Taser ban. Working with the accomplished 2nd Amendment litigators Alan Beck (known to us here on the forum as "Wolfwood") and Stephen Stambouleigh of New Orleans, and in conjunction with the Firearms Policy Coalition, the Taser Ban was recinded. (lawsuit cover page below)

It was not the most high-profile 2nd Amendment victory you will ever read about, but it was a 2A victory nonetheless and another step forward for our right to Self Defense.

In the not-to-distant future, we will win our Federal Civil Rights lawsuit against unlawful arrests on February 5th for exercising our 1st Amendment right to demonstrate on behalf of the 2nd Amendment.

So, I say again: I will be first in line to fight this disgraceful attempt to infringe, yet again, on our rights to own the firearm accessories of our choice. That said, I would love some company. Are you in?
.

Add me to the list of Plaintiff's.

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Fabs: You cannot apply to the ATF to obtain authorization.... for an authorization that DOES NOT EXIST.

Please Google "Obama Stash"...

Oh, I can send a letter as an "application". Now, whether I ever receive approval remains to be seen. Just need to apply before October 1, 2018. Now, I am going to leave this subject for a little while and get some paying work done before dinner hits the table. I need to get some paper moved off my desk. I'll deal with all of this on April 19th after the session and tax season have both ended.

As a teenager, life seemed so complicated. As a 40 something year old, my teenage years seem so simple such that I yearn for such simplicity once again while still having my wife and kids.

Oh yeah, my wife is sending me listings for very nice homes on golf courses in Georgia. No way I can live on a golf course with all those damn rules.

danb · Mar 17, 2018

fabsroman said:
lol - It might be around the corner for you. I am neck deep in returns and I filed my own at the beginning of February. Meanwhile, my wife is sending me listings of lots and custom homes to think about after tax season is over, and here I am debating whether I want to live in Maryland. Probably a fruitless debate as always, but a debate nonetheless.

Lots and custom homes. Tax season must be good! Unless you wife is from the same "we are made of money and retirement is overrated" clan. :lol2:

Mike OTDP · Mar 17, 2018

At this rate, I might just snag an echo trigger myself. Just out of spite.

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

danb said:
Lots and custom homes. Tax season must be good! Unless you wife is from the same "we are made of money and retirement is overrated" clan.

My wife is from the "makes a damn good amount of money" clan and I am from the "have no problem swinging a hammer" clan. My dad is going to help us finish the interior the way we want it. Just damn impossible to buy a house like we want and without an HOA or restrictive covenants, so build one it is. I might be acting as my own GC, but we shall see. We are going to talk to a builder after tax season to see what it would cost to build everything but the floors, bathrooms, and kitchen.

We were going to buy this one a month ago:

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Westminster/4205-Sequoia-Dr-21157/home/14476008

I was working on getting the financing lined up and putting together the contract because we asked if there was an HOA and the seller's agent said there wasn't one. Then, right before we were going to submit everything the seller's agent sent over a 9 page Restrictive Covenant that says boats, trailers, etc. must be garaged, no working on vehicles in the driveway (my truck will not fit in the garage), need approval for permanent structures, no temporary structures allowed, no more than 2 dogs, no livestock other than dogs and cats, no cutting down trees unless they are dead, yada, yada, yada. Our agent sent the restrictive covenant to my wife and my wife told her "No way fabs is going to be alright with this."

Signs, signs, everywhere signs

Rules, rules, everywhere rules

fabsroman · Mar 17, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
It's official: Fabs zillowed this thread.

No, not a derail because people are day-dreaming about moving away from tyranny.

So, derail is too strong. This thread has been zillowed.

I don't always look to buy real estate, but when I do, I use Redfin. lol

Actually, I am constantly looking at real estate either as a new principal residence, hunting farm, or residential rental property.

HB888 - grandfather clause for bump stocks

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