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  • Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,025
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I bought the Lee REAL molds last year for 50 cal. I made Emerett's lube and casted and pan lubed a bunch. Let them sit all summer and decided to take them test shooting last weekend and see if I wanted to hunt with them.

    What a Fricking mess! The lube didn't melt out when being fired. First round went down smooth, 2nd a bit stiffer and the third almost didn't seat. After the third I tried to wire brush and you could feel the cake in there. It wouldn't come loose. Tried swapping and my ram rod got stuck. Need to walk to the shop and vise to pull the ramrod. :rolleyes: I think the rounds tumbled also, no were near the accuracy of RB for me and the mess too.

    I'm melting the lube off and casting these 320 grain conicals into 177 grain round balls. This was a disaster. I can't imaging felt wads would have improved it in any way. I had lube all over my hands, the muzzle of the gun, the short starter and it was only three rounds.

    Others have said "these things are great" I found them to be a miserable experience. Cleaned the gun in a coffee can and the first run was the dirtiest, blackest water I have ever seen when cleaning my rifle. I had twice the fouling of RB shooting. It was painful! :D
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,600
    AA county
    Don't know what "Emerett's lube" is. Back in the day we would lube these with Crisco or Crisco and bees wax. They were never as accurate as Maxiballs out of a T/C Hawken.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,252
    Harford County
    Don't know what "Emerett's lube" is. Back in the day we would lube these with Crisco or Crisco and bees wax. They were never as accurate as Maxiballs out of a T/C Hawken.

    :thumbsup:

    I would definitely try another lube before scrapping the whole project. Can you wipe the old lube off of the bullets? If not...there's you problem. BP lube is supposed to be soft, even if it's beeswax based.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    I shot a ton of 320 reals out of my knight rifles and only had a problem when I tried to overdo the main charge.
    I found 90 gr. To be a max load for accuracy in a 22" LK 1/28 barrel but can get more out of black knight or bighorn model.
    Sounds like you have a lube problem. I just grease with Crisco or T/c bore butter shortly before I load to eliminate storage problems.
    The downside to that is the grease migrating off the slug when carried in warmer temps.
    I've always had good luck range shooting with just enough lube to get the job done.
    The other thing is to make sure very little to no Linotype is alloyed in your mix. Conicals need to be soft to obturate without stripping the skirts if they're driven too fast.
    That's not solving your gummed up mess problem but you should be able to shoot with loose pyrodex and rb's or conicals quite awhile without cleaning during a range session.
    If that bore is getting tight something else is going on, the forward driving band on a real should be a tad bit larger or just enough to grave the ball and keep it firmly seated against the main charge.
    I've seen BP rifles with rust undersized bores, plastic fouled or just loaded with crud from poor maintenance.
    Cast a few round balls and seat with patch, then pull it and look at the ball to see if you can make out the weave of the patch. Then you will know if the alloy is soft enough.
    To hard on a conical and it will just punch a 1/2"whole right through them without transferring all the energy even though 1800 fps is quite a wallop in a 50 rifle.
     
    Last edited:

    engineerbrian

    JMB fan club
    Sep 3, 2010
    10,148
    Fredneck
    I use bore butter (you only need a small amount) with REAL's, it works well. i think the REAL bullets are good, but you need to have the proper twist and powder charge or they will be all over the place.

    I shot my Omega the other day at 50 yards and had great accuracy with 100 grains of powder.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,642
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I get great accuracy out of my 1 in 66 .45 Kentucky rifle with 60 gns of powder. This rifle will almost shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards with the 200 gn real.

    I get 4 inches at 50 yards out of my 1 in 48 TC .50 and .54 renegade using up to 90 gns of powder. However, these two rifles will shoot Maxiballs into 1 inch groups at 50 yards.
    I tried the smaller REAL bullets as Maxi balls knock the snot out of me these days. I really wished they had worked.

    I use Crisco for lube also. Never use a heavy bees wax mixture as it will make reloading a chore.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,025
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Maybe I won't melt them down just yet. Although I have my gun loaded for Muzzy doe this week with a RB. I always used RB and thought maybe a conical might do something better. Atfer reading more some guys need wads or else they can tumble and keyhole the target and loose accuracy without the wads.

    Emmerts is a lube made for the grooves of bullets like 44 long colt and guys on Cast Boolits suggested it. It was an utter F'ing mess for me, but not a total loss. I found I can cut the hard lube into ice cube size pieces and rub it like a crayon on pillow ticking. The heat the ticking over a flame and it the lube soaks into the patch cloth. Might be able to use it also for making 44 cal wool wads.

    I have another recipe for lube with 3 parts tallow and 1 part Beeswax which should be a lot softer. I have about a quart of rendered deer fat from last year in the basement fridge to make more lube.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,778
    Statement #1 - So far you are having a lube problem, not necessarily a bullet problem. Homemade BP lubes can be an entire hobby in themselves . But both Crisco and Bore Butter have long history of satisfactorily results in that usage.

    Statement #2 - A.50cal Round Ball will work darn well . At least within reasonable-ish distance.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,642
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I just took my own advice to remove some Lee Alox that I had put on about 50 REAL bullets that I wanted to shoot at high velocity. Well the stuff made putting them down the bore more of a pain than cleaning a little leading so I just removed the stuff. I just put them in a pickle jar half full with mineral spirits for a couple of days and it took the Alox right off.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,257
    HoCo
    resurrecting this thread from last year to hear any updates or more thoughts.
    I have some REAL bullets I recently molded for my 54 Lyman Great Planes.
    I have Oxe Yoke lubed felt wads from tow to try with them.
    I molded with soft lead and currently plan to shoot a mild load of 60grains trying two ways
    Crisco in the grooves applied at the shooting line and then no lube plus the Oxe Yoke Felt wads
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,642
    Socialist State of Maryland
    If you have a 1 in 60 twist, the 60 grain load won't work in the GPR. If you have the 1 in 32, it might. My GPR with the 1 in 60 twist takes 90 grains of 3f before the Real bullets will start to group well enough for hunting. For me, that is 3 inches at 75 yards with open sights. Yes, I said 3f as it keeps the fowling down and makes it easier to ram a second shot down the bore.

    For my loads, I use a wipe of Crisco on the bullet and a unlubed felt wad cut to 56 cal under it. Why 56 cal, because of the deep grooves in the GPR. A wool wad cut to .54 will let gas escape and opens up the groups. I buy bulk felt and cut my own wads for all my BP guns. I don't know if 56 cal are available commercially.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,257
    HoCo
    John,

    I took MOST of your advice that I could apply today in my load work up. You were definitely right about the need to bump up the load. I have not gone so far to cut my own wads but the reading on these warned me to use a felt wad so I got some 54 ox yoke (wonder lube 1000 soaked) wads. Since I first got this Lyman during a time when it was painful to acquire BP, I duplexed 15gr of Goex 2F with 65gr BH209 with patch and ball. So I started with that and gradually bumped up the BH209 and sure enough at 15 goex +75 bh209 =90 total, the groups tightened up significantly. I did not have much time after that so I shot 3 with 90gr of 2F from the bench and then offhand. Yes, I need some work with my offhand with such a heavy gun as the Lyman GP 54 cal. Believe me, it was all me and I knew after each shot before looking that I was either left or right of the target.


    50 yards

    4 shots 15gr Goex FFG and 75gr BH209 at the tan paper front supported from the bench

    3 shots 90gr Goex FFG at the dirty bird front supported from the bench.

    3 shots 90gr Goex FFG at the dirty bird offhand.



    I'm going to spend some more time with this trying the 3F goex next.
     

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    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,642
    Socialist State of Maryland
    You're doing very good work there! The rifle is capable of better accuracy than we can hold even with peep sights. I agree with the weight of the GPR, it is too heavy for offhand work. I have been thinking about cutting about 6 inches off of mine. The only reason that I have been dragging it out is that I will have to re drill the under barrel lug holes. Cutting the barrel and lug are easy but drilling and tapping the barrel is a pain even with my mill. I shake too much for fine machine work these days. :sad20:

    I may take it up to a Bobby Hoyt in PA who does barrel work and have him cut it and re bore it to .54 at the same time. That should balance it out nicely.

    In case anyone else should want to have barrel work done, here is Bobby's info.

    Bobby Hoyt
    2379 Mt Hope Road
    Fairfield, Pa 17320
    717-642-6696
     
    Last edited:

    wilcam47

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 4, 2008
    25,948
    Changed zip code
    I bought the Lee REAL molds last year for 50 cal. I made Emerett's lube and casted and pan lubed a bunch. Let them sit all summer and decided to take them test shooting last weekend and see if I wanted to hunt with them.

    What a Fricking mess! The lube didn't melt out when being fired. First round went down smooth, 2nd a bit stiffer and the third almost didn't seat. After the third I tried to wire brush and you could feel the cake in there. It wouldn't come loose. Tried swapping and my ram rod got stuck. Need to walk to the shop and vise to pull the ramrod. :rolleyes: I think the rounds tumbled also, no were near the accuracy of RB for me and the mess too.

    I'm melting the lube off and casting these 320 grain conicals into 177 grain round balls. This was a disaster. I can't imaging felt wads would have improved it in any way. I had lube all over my hands, the muzzle of the gun, the short starter and it was only three rounds.

    Others have said "these things are great" I found them to be a miserable experience. Cleaned the gun in a coffee can and the first run was the dirtiest, blackest water I have ever seen when cleaning my rifle. I had twice the fouling of RB shooting. It was painful! :D
    Thats because you forgot the 3% Antimony...:lol2:;) Just kidding I got nothing...just couldnt resist.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,025
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Melnic what is the twist rate on the rifle you are shooting? I will be testing mine again, but waiting until it warmer and using a 1:48 and 1:28 guns for the testing.

    The lube was the problem for me. I might just try crisco and paper patching in the experiment. I appreciate you sarcasm. :D
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,257
    HoCo
    The Rifle is a Lyman Great Plains 54cal.
    Its twist rate is 1turn in 60"
    The Lube in those Ox Yoke Wonder Wads I used was hard to tell. I'm not experienced to know how much lube SHOULD be in the wad.
    Track of the Wolf part # is OX-WAD-54-W
    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/174/1/OX-WAD-54-W
    I notice the description mentions good for .54 caliber, .56 T/C renegade etc. Per John's comment about making it bigger, it may be why mine worked for me.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,642
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Lube is not necessary on the wad as its job is only to keep the gases from bypassing the bullet until it is compressed in the bore. It probably only takes milliseconds. I lube the Lee bullet with a wipe of either Crisco or Bore Butter, either works just as good. I don't try to fill the grooves, I just wipe it on with my finger.
     

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