Denied HQL even with set aside order.

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  • jbwmd

    Member
    Jul 21, 2020
    5
    First time poster here, first would like to thank the community for such a wealth of info.

    My back story… Born and raised in Neb. moved to NE PA in 2007 and then to Western MD back in 2013. With work, family and life being so busy I never made time to apply for an HQL, and admittedly I think its overkill so I put it off. Fast forward to this March with the pandemic and ample amount of time on my hands, I finally decided to cave in and take the class, fingerprints, application etc. 30 days passes and I start getting curious why my status is stuck in pending? After several voicemails and emails, I get a response that my HQL was denied via email which they said was sent 16 or so days after I applied. I never received the email and requested for it to be resent, it stated “you are prohibited by Federal or State law from possessing or purchasing a regulated firearm pursuant to Sections 5-117.1 and 5-133 of the Public Safety Article, Annotated Code of Maryland.”

    So, I call the Sgt. assigned to my case and he explains that I had a charge back in 2003 that disqualified me. The charge was spitting or expectorate upon another person which is a class 3 misdemeanor punishable by up to 3 months or a $500 fine, or both; I was given a $50 fine. * Before I carry on let me say this, yes this is disgusting and I made a mistake. I was early 20’s in a heated argument with someone I care about, I was struck first and acted out of frustration instead of hitting back. Never the less this is no excuse and I take full responsibility for my actions. * I ask the Sgt. how I can remediate this and he suggests I try to get it expunged from my record.

    Now, in July I file the petition paperwork with the court in Nebraska to have my conviction set aside. Nebraska only grants expungements if you were wrongly accused of a crime, they use the set aside as a way of nullifying a conviction. The set aside, from a legal perspective, is from my understanding the same thing. With the difference being that an expungement seals your record so it cannot be seen. I am by no means a lawyer or student of law but that’s what I take away from reading multiple credible sources. The good news is I went to court and spoke to the judge, pled my case and was granted a set aside order for this case.

    I send this paperwork over to the Sgt. via email and request that he consider this as being enough to satisfy being qualified for an HQL. He happened to be on vacation so when he returned, I left him a voicemail and he calls me back today. His response was that a set aside was not the same as expungement because he can still see it on the history, clearly marked with the set aside motion. I tried to explain to him about a set aside being essentially the same as expungement and how I think we are dealing with an interpretation issue, nothing gives. He says I can appeal but I’m at a loss and practically defeated at this point. I contacted a lawyer who said he would argue my case but the retainer costs along with the slim to none chance of getting this reversed make most people walk away from it.

    As I understand it from my reading here and interpretation of the laws: I cannot legally own or buy a firearm, cannot go to a shooting range or shoot a gun for that matter, am I right? Also, I assume this means long guns, rifles and shotguns as well? All within the great state of Maryland of course!

    Sorry for the long post, I'm half processing and venting this frustration out.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,830
    Bel Air
    That’s not in accordance with MD law and should not be a disqualifying crime. Ask the sarge to cite that in COMAR.

    Unless your loogie is a crime of violence.
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,963
    Fulton, MD
    If you're not prohibited at the federal level, and being in (assumed west) western Maryland, freedom is about 5 miles down the road in any direction, especially south.

    Sorry to hear of your predicament.
     

    jbwmd

    Member
    Jul 21, 2020
    5
    That’s not in accordance with MD law and should not be a disqualifying crime. Ask the sarge to cite that in COMAR.

    Unless your loogie is a crime of violence.

    This was my thinking as well and when I asked how this equated to assault, he said that Maryland law states that spitting is second degree assault punishable by up to 10 years and $2500. I know he didn't make the laws, but sure didn't do me any favors when he translated over to the Maryland equivalant. I personally think the original crime and punishment should have been considered.
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,963
    Fulton, MD
    Ah... there's been a few people in your exact situation. Minor crime elsewhere leads to prohibition in Maryland, home of the 10 year misdemeanor.

    Move south or west. Or settle for rifles and shotguns - until January.
     

    jbwmd

    Member
    Jul 21, 2020
    5
    Sounds like a domestic charge?

    Regrettably so :sad20: However, it was not classified as domestic, just a simple ticket. One could deduce this if they read the case file but it wasn't classified as domestic assault.

    This is how it looks on record, "for (M)SPIT OR EXPECTORATE UPON
    ANOTHER PERSON." M is for Misdameanor.
     

    Jaybeez

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Patriot Picket
    May 30, 2006
    6,393
    Darlington MD
    This was my thinking as well and when I asked how this equated to assault, he said that Maryland law states that spitting is second degree assault punishable by up to 10 years and $2500. I know he didn't make the laws, but sure didn't do me any favors when he translated over to the Maryland equivalant. I personally think the original crime and punishment should have been considered.

    Our previous AG of MD made the determination that out of state convictions get translated to the closest md equivalent. Md's version of 2nd degree assault gets a lot of people moving from other states disqualified. If I recall the case law cited is mccloud (someone help me here) and there may be something in there that's helpful.

    However, i would take the trooper up on his offer of appeal and state that your set aside from another state is the equivalent of md's stet (set aside). I'm not a lawyer, but if the appeal is free it will cost you nothing to let his superior argue with you.

    Md allows prohibiting people for convictions or pending charges but not stets.
     

    Jaybeez

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Patriot Picket
    May 30, 2006
    6,393
    Darlington MD
    https://law.justia.com/cases/maryland/court-of-appeals/2012/101-11.html

    Here's the case law mccloud v hprb.l

    If md is translating convictions to md equivalents, they should also be translating other states processes of relief to the md process of relief.
    Example the other states method of expungement to md expungement.

    If the set aside in the other state would allow you to clear your record of a prohibiting crime in that state, then md should accept that too. This would be an important point to make in your appeal if true.
     

    jbwmd

    Member
    Jul 21, 2020
    5
    Our previous AG of MD made the determination that out of state convictions get translated to the closest md equivalent. Md's version of 2nd degree assault gets a lot of people moving from other states disqualified. If I recall the case law cited is mccloud (someone help me here) and there may be something in there that's helpful.

    However, i would take the trooper up on his offer of appeal and state that your set aside from another state is the equivalent of md's stet (set aside). I'm not a lawyer, but if the appeal is free it will cost you nothing to let his superior argue with you.

    Md allows prohibiting people for convictions or pending charges but not stets.

    Thanks, Ill give it a Google search to see what I can find. I've considered this as well, it is after all an informal hearing, and I can at least be heard.
     

    jbwmd

    Member
    Jul 21, 2020
    5
    https://law.justia.com/cases/maryland/court-of-appeals/2012/101-11.html

    Here's the case law mccloud v hprb.l

    If md is translating convictions to md equivalents, they should also be translating other states processes of relief to the md process of relief.
    Example the other states method of expungement to md expungement.

    If the set aside in the other state would allow you to clear your record of a prohibiting crime in that state, then md should accept that too. This would be an important point to make in your appeal if true.

    Exactly this! Also, even with the crime not being set aside I was still eligble to own, and had a handgun permit in Neb.
     

    HankR

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 22, 2013
    3,449
    Upper Midwest
    Ah... there's been a few people in your exact situation. Minor crime elsewhere leads to prohibition in Maryland, home of the 10 year misdemeanor.

    Move south or west. Or settle for rifles and shotguns - until January.

    If MD considers this a domestic violence or felony assault can he not get in trouble for rifles also?
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,921
    The situation will only worsen with time.

    Moving to PA, WV or VA would relieve you of burdensome MD laws, and protect your rights far better than remaining in MD. Save the legal fees for moving expenses.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,153
    FSA 2013 in action !

    Plan #1 - Lawyer up , and roll the dice with ALJ

    Plan #2 - Western Md is close to Pa, WV . or Va , relocate and commute .


    Yes , as stands , OP would be prohibited from possessing any firearm in Md .
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,579
    Hazzard County
    FSA 2013 in action !

    Plan #1 - Lawyer up , and roll the dice with ALJ

    Plan #2 - Western Md is close to Pa, WV . or Va , relocate and commute .


    Yes , as stands , OP would be prohibited from possessing any firearm in Md .

    I would get out vs try to fight, Frosh's minions have unlimited funds and time.
     

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