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Old September 4th, 2017, 05:24 PM #281
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Maan,...you guys are really going to be confused when they grant cert on this one.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 10:44 PM #282
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
More precisely, it'll take a composition change on the Court for Norman to be granted cert, or any other carry case for that matter. The Supreme Court has had plenty of opportunity to opine on the matter and has refused to (and, indeed, has refused to for any and all 2A cases save for Caetano).

No other newly-recognized right has been treated this way by the Court. That should be a clear indication that the Court is political in nature, and not an objective arbiter of law.
This is correct. I was perhaps being too brash and hopeful
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Old September 4th, 2017, 10:46 PM #283
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There was no split (as far as I know) in Caetano. The Court took it anyway.

That common theme is also shared by (numerous) cases involving other rights that the Court has taken.

For the Court to demand that 2nd Amendment firearms cases somehow adhere to a standard that cases involving other rights don't have to is for the Court to treat the 2nd Amendment as a second-class right. Again, no other right has been treated this way by the Court immediately after its recognition.
Exactly. I could see the lack of split argument if there were literally three or four cases in the circuits at the same time, and they wanted to wait for all to opine in a several month period. But given that the circuit courts have stretched these cases out over years, and in fact made some rulings that make clear that the 2nd Amendment protects absolutely nothing in practice, shows that the Supreme Court is making a political decision. Even with no split, if they were concerned with their precedent, they'd have taken a case within a year of case after case coming out of the circuits applying rational basis scrutiny to the 2nd Amendment.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:09 AM #284
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
There was no split (as far as I know) in Caetano. The Court took it anyway.

That common theme is also shared by (numerous) cases involving other rights that the Court has taken.

For the Court to demand that 2nd Amendment firearms cases somehow adhere to a standard that cases involving other rights don't have to is for the Court to treat the 2nd Amendment as a second-class right. Again, no other right has been treated this way by the Court immediately after its recognition.
Caetano had a minor split with people v. YANNA. And, part of the reason it was taken was the reasoning was directly opposed to Heller.

As a frame of reference, what other rights have gotten cert when no split existed?
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:10 AM #285
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Maan,...you guys are really going to be confused when they grant cert on this one.
I won't be, because no other courts have said that specifically open carry can be banned.
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Old September 6th, 2017, 12:26 AM #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Caetano had a minor split with people v. YANNA. And, part of the reason it was taken was the reasoning was directly opposed to Heller.

As a frame of reference, what other rights have gotten cert when no split existed?
All of them, I expect. But if you need some cases listed, then Thomas and Scalia have been gracious enough to provide a few. From their dissent to denial of cert in Jackson v. City and County of San Francisco:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson v. City and County of San Francisco
The Court's refusal to review this decision is difficult to account for in light of its repeated willingness to review splitless decisions involving alleged violations of other constitutional rights. See, e.g., Glossip v. Gross, 574 U. S. ___ (2015) (cert. granted) (Eighth Amendment); Ontario v. Quon, 560 U. S. 746 (2010) (Fourth Amendment); Hill v. Colorado, 530 U. S. 703 (2000) (First Amendment). Indeed, the Court has been willing to review splitless decisions involving alleged violations of rights it has never previously enforced. See, e.g., BMW of North America, Inc. v. Gore, 517 U. S. 559 (1996) (right to limit on punitive damages awards). And it has even gone so far as to review splitless decisions involving alleged violations of rights expressly foreclosed by precedent. See, e.g., Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U. S. 723 (2008) (right of aliens held outside U. S. territory to the privilege of habeas corpus); Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U. S. 558 (2003) (right to engage in adult, consensual same-sex intimate behavior). I see no reason that challenges based on Second Amendment rights should be treated differently.
I expect that there are quite a few more. Identifying them properly probably requires going to rather great lengths, e.g. examining cert pool memos.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 12:57 PM #287
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Old September 25th, 2017, 03:14 PM #288
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When do we get the denial notice?
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Old September 25th, 2017, 06:18 PM #289
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When do we get the denial notice?
Not for a few weeks at least. The state's response is due October 11th. I'd expect it to be at a conference two or 3 weeks after unless the response gets delayed again.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 04:23 PM #290
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When do we get the denial notice?
You obviously are not basing that position off of the fact that not one previous carry case prior to Norman had an injured party involving a fundamental right...Just a crystal ball guess.

Being arrested for exercising the fundamental right of open carrying a firearm for self-defense outside the home will compel this courts review mechanism, otherwise known as...certiorari granted
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