Wyoming Bear Attack - Condition 3 Glock Useless
- Thread starter cpo
- Start date
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Yep, plus train for how you carry.
DutchV
Ultimate Member
- Jul 8, 2012
- 4,725
Well, he won't make that mistake again. So much for being "an experienced guide". Only one gun for two people? And neither one watching for bears?
Sometimes being clueless really will get you killed.
Sometimes being clueless really will get you killed.
More important than the Carry Condition of your pistol is your mindset and situational awareness. The Cooper Color Code is the corollary of your the carry conditions.
The gun can be Cocked and Locked but if the shooter is not in the mindset to employ it than the outcome can be just as fatal as it was for this fellow.
Chad was right about complacency killing this young man.
The gun can be Cocked and Locked but if the shooter is not in the mindset to employ it than the outcome can be just as fatal as it was for this fellow.
Chad was right about complacency killing this young man.
Gotta laugh at that one about conditions...
If I'm preparing any sort of a meal I'm on the lookout for folks trying to sneak a taste before it's time. Can't blame bears for trying to take the same liberties with someone preparing one of their favorite snacks. Situational awareness 101.
If I'm preparing any sort of a meal I'm on the lookout for folks trying to sneak a taste before it's time. Can't blame bears for trying to take the same liberties with someone preparing one of their favorite snacks. Situational awareness 101.
I don't have a problem with carrying a Glock in condition one in a proper holster that covers the trigger. It is the initial holstering of a condition one Glock that just gives me the willies. The trigger doesn't care if it it is pressed by a finger - or a strap or a fold of shirt. I hope I never get over that extra dose of caution.
cpo
hmmm......
In the 27 years I've been carrying a gun, I've never carried any way other than C1. I still reluctantly holster each and every time, and I look at what I am doing (especially important with guns with no external safety). It drives me crazy to watch YouTube vids of people either trying to speed-reholster, or look cool talking to the camera and reholstering blindly. That extra dose of caution you apply is exactly what is needed to remain as safe as possible.
hogarth
Ultimate Member
- Jun 13, 2009
- 2,504
On sale for people who feel as you do:
https://taudevgroup.myshopify.com/products/striker-control-device
I don't own one and am not affiliated with that company, but I personally know many users of the SCD who love them.
I never knew this product even existed. So basically you press your thumb on the cover plate while holstering and the gun cannot fire even if the trigger was somehow depressed. Anyone know any downsides?
Alan3413
Ultimate Member
- Mar 4, 2013
- 17,115
Says installation by certified armourer only. Is fitting needed or just a CYA disclaimer?
cpo
hmmm......
Exactly. I don't own one, but I did a lot of research into them, and they seem to be well regarded. It is another moving part... so it technically can introduce a new failure point. I see pros and cons... but nothing crazy on cons
Just a CYA. It's a simple back plate replacement.
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
I always carried a .44 mag revolver when I lived and roamed around the west. If I was scared $hitless I didn't want to think before shooting something big with teeth and claws. Never needed it but it was always there and READY.
Glocks can’t really be carried Condition 1, only SA like 1911s, BHPs, Polish Randoms and CZ75s and other similar SAO and DASA pistols.
OEM Glocks are carried in Condition 2 like a DA or DAO Revolvers that the G17 was originally intended to replace for LEOs. An External slide safety on a Glock is like teets on a boar hog. If you’re not comfortable with holstering a Glock then you need to get to know and master your pistol so it becomes second nature to you.
S&W designed the M&P to mimic the controls of a 1911 but again that is for the comfort and familiarity of the shooter and not for the safe operation of a striker fired pistol.
OEM Glocks are carried in Condition 2 like a DA or DAO Revolvers that the G17 was originally intended to replace for LEOs. An External slide safety on a Glock is like teets on a boar hog. If you’re not comfortable with holstering a Glock then you need to get to know and master your pistol so it becomes second nature to you.
S&W designed the M&P to mimic the controls of a 1911 but again that is for the comfort and familiarity of the shooter and not for the safe operation of a striker fired pistol.
Last edited:
- May 22, 2005
- 122,879
I spent the day out in free America at the Undisclosed Location (tm) and was rocking 46 rounds of 10mm goodness with the delivery mechanism locked and loaded.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
It's probably best that the Glock was never fired. A 10MM will not stop a grizzly and a wounded bear is the most dangerous animal you can encounter.
The rule of thumb for grizzly defense is the 4-3-1 rule. A bullet diameter that starts with at least a 4, a bullet weight that starts with at least a 3 and a muzzle velocity of at least 1000 fps. I looked at the Buffalo Bore heavy 10mm bear defense rounds and they are only 220 grain. They would be suitable for black bear but not for a grizzly.
You're not going to make a grizzly bleed out and drop, or at least it will kill you before it bleeds out. Their fat and fur will seal any handgun bullet holes enough that they won't lose significant amounts of blood. You need a very heavy round that will penetrate the grizzly and damage or destroy the central nervous system - the brain or spinal cord. Sometimes a hit to the shoulder will stop them from charging if it breaks the shoulder blade and they can no longer run on that arm.
The rule of thumb for grizzly defense is the 4-3-1 rule. A bullet diameter that starts with at least a 4, a bullet weight that starts with at least a 3 and a muzzle velocity of at least 1000 fps. I looked at the Buffalo Bore heavy 10mm bear defense rounds and they are only 220 grain. They would be suitable for black bear but not for a grizzly.
You're not going to make a grizzly bleed out and drop, or at least it will kill you before it bleeds out. Their fat and fur will seal any handgun bullet holes enough that they won't lose significant amounts of blood. You need a very heavy round that will penetrate the grizzly and damage or destroy the central nervous system - the brain or spinal cord. Sometimes a hit to the shoulder will stop them from charging if it breaks the shoulder blade and they can no longer run on that arm.
brownspotz
Ultimate Member
- Oct 22, 2013
- 1,765
Do you even hear yourself speak?
I'll gladly magdump my Glock knowing the end result could be changed.
I'd post the video of the guy mag dumping his Glock twice into the moose while on a snowmobile...guess who rode away unscathed....I'd probably be banned for posting it.
Alan3413
Ultimate Member
- Mar 4, 2013
- 17,115
Handguns (.38 spc) and up have a 97% success rate when used defensively against bears. Some were sphincter-clenchingly close, but the only time it failed seemed to be when the shooter missed.
Of note is the lowly 9mm that saved the life of the wielder in 4 separate cases.
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5Xd5kZ3N2
Of note is the lowly 9mm that saved the life of the wielder in 4 separate cases.
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5Xd5kZ3N2
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
I'm pretty sure 9mm and 10mm kill brown bear just fine per reports.
CrazySanMan
2013'er
I've studied this extensively because my wife and I have taken our kids on hikes in grizzly country. I carry a 45 acp or 357 in black bear country but if it's grizzly country I carry 454 casull.
"'mag dumping his Glock twice into the moose while on a snowmobile"
That's a whole lot different than being covered in blood while butchering an elk at the beginning of a grizzly's hibernation period when they are desperate to consume every possible calorie before hibernating, and the grizzly has a cub with it to boot.
I'm certain that if the glock had fired and wounded the bear both men would be dead, not just one. That bear had not one but three signs of being aggressive to the death - it's cub was there, there was a fresh elk kill and a human covered in blood from the elk, and the bear was acting abnormally and overly aggressive.
Most of those are black bear accounts and a black bear is not a grizzly, not even close when it comes to size or aggressiveness. Sure, any round can stop a bear with a lucky shot, at one time the world record brown bear was taken by an elderly woman with 22LR, but that bear wasn't charging a blood covered human at an elk kill site with it's cub present when it was shot. A brown bear, with a cub, at a fresh kill site, is not going to be deterred by a warning shot and wounding momma griz with her cub nearby is the last thing you want to do.
Anyone who is interested in learning about bear attacks and preventing them should read this book:
Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance by Stephen Herrero
I spend so much time in bear country that I have been constantly reading that book since about 2009. Every time I finish it I start again so it's always fresh in my mind.
Remember the 4-3-1 rule and follow it the next time, and every time, you are in grizzly country. At least 40 caliber, at least 300 grain bullet, at least 1000 fps, and bigger is better as long as you can shoot it accurately.
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