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  • dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Oh Kay -> Two questions:

    - When was the last time you built a Garand from parts to a complete and "range-proven" rifle?
    - Your solution to the OP's sighting issue is to simply send the rifle back to the CMP or take it to a gunsmith? Trust me, it's NOT free either way...

    :sad20:

    Sir, it won't cost the OP a dime to diagnose the issue himself. And maybe he'll learn something about his Garand in the process. Wouldn't it make sense to identify the issue before putting additional $'s into it?

    The OP knows he can send me a PM if he seeks input.

    I've been on too many threads over the years where inaccurate advice is served up. I'm done with this thread...

    :outta her

    Are you saying you took a course and now, know everything? I learned from Ray Parkinson. I know how to build Garands, including match grade.
    I gave away my tools to a good friend several years ago, so, I don't do complete builds anymore. I have also known Charlie Maloney for decades and know that he does excellent work, that is why I use and recommend him. Should I ever decide to build a Garand from parts, rest assured that I have both the knowledge and skills.

    OP, to simplify this to everyone's satisfaction, especially yours since it is your gun, take it to Charlie for inspection. He will tell you straight!
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Been playing with the front sight, and wish i could get to the range today. Great posts, and good info on line. Canfield’s big book had a bit of info on th sights. I shot the rear sight with blaster and its moving easier. I will report back, but it may be a couple of weeks.
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    Having recently attended a CMP AMC class doesn't make us "experts", but I think we "maybe" learned a little something about building, maintaining and accurizing Garands at the class... ;)

    Sure, you could send the rifle back to the CMP. But why? 1) It would cost you shipping; 2) It would take a long time, and 3) Cleaning and adjusting your sights is something you can easily do yourself.

    Are you saying you took a course and now, know everything? I learned from Ray Parkinson. I know how to build Garands,I] including match grade.

    I gave away my tools to a good friend several years ago, so, I don't do complete builds anymore. I have also known Charlie Maloney for decades and know that he does excellent work, that is why I use and recommend him. Should I ever decide to build a Garand from parts, rest assured that I have both the knowledge and skills.

    OP, to simplify this to everyone's satisfaction, especially yours since it is your gun, take it to Charlie for inspection. He will tell you straight!


    Sir. we do not know each other and it's not my intent to start a pissing match with you or anyone else on Garand expertise. I have no doubt you have the experience you say about building M1 Garands. However, when folks on this forum quote my posts when they have evidently not completely read them, I take issue with that.

    My advice to the OP about cleaning and correctly installing his rear sight stands. In fact, that was a key point clearly made by the expert CMP armorers in the class we attended. Since they do it every day, I think I'll rely on their advice.

    While the cleanliness of the rear sight internal parts is likely not the OP's problem, crud in the gears and knobs can contribute to windage adjustment issues. Why? Because the rear sight windage adjustment moves "past and then back" to its set position with each turn of the windage adjustment dial. Because it's a "spring loaded mechanism" vs. a worm gear, it must be clean.

    The OP is welcome to do whatever he wants with his rifle. IMO, diagnosing and fixing his sight issue would be simple to do himself.

    I'm done with my input here.
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Sir. we do not know each other and it's not my intent to start a pissing match with you or anyone else on Garand expertise. I have no doubt you have the experience you say about building M1 Garands. However, when folks on this forum quote my posts when they have evidently not completely read them, I take issue with that.

    My advice to the OP about cleaning and correctly installing his rear sight stands. In fact, that was a key point clearly made by the expert CMP armorers in the class we attended. Since they do it every day, I think I'll rely on their advice.

    While the cleanliness of the rear sight internal parts is likely not the OP's problem, crud in the gears and knobs can contribute to windage adjustment issues. Why? Because the rear sight windage adjustment moves "past and then back" to its set position with each turn of the windage adjustment dial. Because it's a "spring loaded mechanism" vs. a worm gear, it must be clean.

    The OP is welcome to do whatever he wants with his rifle. IMO, diagnosing and fixing his sight issue would be simple to do himself.

    I'm done with my input here.

    I do not wish to get into a "pissing match" either. I fully understand what you are saying about cleaning the sight and it being necessary for proper movement of the sight without binding issues. I agree with that. What I am seeing, without the benefit of anything other than the OP's original pic, is a rear sight that is way too far off center. Some have posted that the front sight can be moved to compensate and thus bring the rear sight back to center. To a certain extent, that is true. Problem is, when you have to move the front sight that far to compensate, it reveals other issues. Rarely do you see a Garand that has not had the original barrel replaced anymore. The factory method used a special fixture that was both fast and accurate. Those fixtures are quite rare now. In the thread about the CMP course, there is a pic that shows the parallel plane method for checking proper barrel indexing. That is the most common method used by armorers and is usually very accurate. It does rely somewhat on the visual perception of the armorer though. This is why the CMP uses the longer rods. I have seen other methods that use much shorter rods and the potential for error is greater. Back to the point, Presuming the front sight was centered, or very close to it, the rear sight being as far off as the pic shows, leads me to believe that another issue is at play. Possibilities include improperly machined splines on the barrel or gas cylinder. Since these parts must pass inspection gauges during the production & acceptance process, this is not very likely. That leaves improper barrel indexing as the most likely culprit. This will cause the sight to be farther off than acceptable. It also leads to increased wear of other parts, primarily the op rod. All this leads to my recommendation that the OP have the rifle inspected by CMP or Charlie Maloney. If the OP does not wish to go through the hassle of shipping to CMP, etc., Charlie is located in Catonsville and does the inspection while you are there. It is well worth the nominal cost.
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    I will look at front sight. I suppose it is moveable. The stock has RIA stamped and P on the pistol grip. Those should indicate govt rearsenaling?
    Yes put the rear sight back to center and zero it with the front sight
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    I do not wish to get into a "pissing match" either. I fully understand what you are saying about cleaning the sight and it being necessary for proper movement of the sight without binding issues. I agree with that.

    What I am seeing, without the benefit of anything other than the OP's original pic, is a rear sight that is way too far off center. Some have posted that the front sight can be moved to compensate and thus bring the rear sight back to center. To a certain extent, that is true. Problem is, when you have to move the front sight that far to compensate, it reveals other issues. Rarely do you see a Garand that has not had the original barrel replaced anymore.

    The factory method used a special fixture that was both fast and accurate. Those fixtures are quite rare now. In the thread about the CMP course, there is a pic that shows the parallel plane method for checking proper barrel indexing. That is the most common method used by armorers and is usually very accurate. It does rely somewhat on the visual perception of the armorer though. This is why the CMP uses the longer rods. I have seen other methods that use much shorter rods and the potential for error is greater.

    Back to the point, Presuming the front sight was centered, or very close to it, the rear sight being as far off as the pic shows, leads me to believe that another issue is at play. Possibilities include improperly machined splines on the barrel or gas cylinder. Since these parts must pass inspection gauges during the production & acceptance process, this is not very likely. That leaves improper barrel indexing as the most likely culprit. This will cause the sight to be farther off than acceptable. It also leads to increased wear of other parts, primarily the op rod.

    All this leads to my recommendation that the OP have the rifle inspected by CMP or Charlie Maloney. If the OP does not wish to go through the hassle of shipping to CMP, etc., Charlie is located in Catonsville and does the inspection while you are there. It is well worth the nominal cost.

    Thank you for your cordial response, dist1646. Frankly I think we both basically agree on the OP's possible next steps. With only the pics we've seen, neither of us know where the front sight is positioned. All the other contributing factors you mention (barrel timing, gas cylinder alignment etc.) could be the cause of the OP's problem. All those issues would require a Garand owner with good working knowledge and the proper tools or qualified gunsmith's intervention.

    IMHO the first place for the OP to start is to align his front sight to center line on the barrel and adjust (and clean) the rear sight. Both are steps he can easily perform himself - and learn about. That may correct his issue. If not, visiting your local guy would be the next step vs. packing up his Garand and sending it off to the CMP. The armorers there are experts, but they have a huge backlog of work on their shelves.

    The OP should learn how his Garand functions and how to maintain it. That's something I think we can both agree on.

    :thumbsup:
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Dist 1646 and j8064. Thank you both for your cordial end to the thread. You are both very helpful and i am grateful for your expertise and the time you both took to help me. It is obvious you respect the Garand and are very knowledgable. I will take apart the rear sight, and you both may get a pm from me if i have a part left over or can’t reassemble. At least the parts will be clean. And i will play with the front sight and report back in a couple of weeks. Cheers, gents.
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Thank you for your cordial response, dist1646. Frankly I think we both basically agree on the OP's possible next steps. With only the pics we've seen, neither of us know where the front sight is positioned. All the other contributing factors you mention (barrel timing, gas cylinder alignment etc.) could be the cause of the OP's problem. All those issues would require a Garand owner with good working knowledge and the proper tools or qualified gunsmith's intervention.

    IMHO the first place for the OP to start is to align his front sight to center line on the barrel and adjust (and clean) the rear sight. Both are steps he can easily perform himself - and learn about. That may correct his issue. If not, visiting your local guy would be the next step vs. packing up his Garand and sending it off to the CMP. The armorers there are experts, but they have a huge backlog of work on their shelves.

    The OP should learn how his Garand functions and how to maintain it. That's something I think we can both agree on.

    :thumbsup:

    :thumbsup:
    Dist 1646 and j8064. Thank you both for your cordial end to the thread. You are both very helpful and i am grateful for your expertise and the time you both took to help me. It is obvious you respect the Garand and are very knowledgable. I will take apart the rear sight, and you both may get a pm from me if i have a part left over or can’t reassemble. At least the parts will be clean. And i will play with the front sight and report back in a couple of weeks. Cheers, gents.

    Please feel free to do so.
    One of the best reference sources I have found is in a book titled;
    The U.S. .30 Caliber gas operated Service Rifles
    A Shop Manual
    Volumes I&II

    By Jerry Kuhnhausen

    The book covers both the M1 Garand and the M14. It is well worth having in your reference library!
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    Dist 1646 and j8064. Thank you both for your cordial end to the thread. You are both very helpful and i am grateful for your expertise and the time you both took to help me. It is obvious you respect the Garand and are very knowledgable. I will take apart the rear sight, and you both may get a pm from me if i have a part left over or can’t reassemble. At least the parts will be clean. And i will play with the front sight and report back in a couple of weeks. Cheers, gents.


    Please feel free to do so.
    One of the best reference sources I have found is in a book titled;
    The U.S. .30 Caliber gas operated Service Rifles
    A Shop Manual
    Volumes I&II
    By Jerry Kuhnhausen

    The book covers both the M1 Garand and the M14. It is well worth having in your reference library!

    I agree with dist1646. You can also include me with any additional questions.

    dist1646 is 100% correct about the book he mentions. We received the book at our CMP AMC class. It's a great reference tool any Garand owner should have in his library!

    :thumbsup:

    Good luck getting your rifle running properly. If we can assist, you have resources to lean on!

    :thumbsup:
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    You two gents are what makes this a great site. Hope to meet both of you one day.

    Meeting the Hooligans is simple. We usually arrive at the Savage River Range in Garrett County by 0800 on Sunday mornings. It's rare we aren't there.

    You have an open invitation, Zorros. All you need to do is be there...

    ;)
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I met a wonderful gent today at the howard co gun show. He had a table on the left wall and he was selling garands and some stocks. First, he took one aprt and demonstrated where to lube this rifle, but more germaine to this post he took the rear sight apart AND ( most important) he put it back together. I turned the windage knob and it made my rifle sight feel like it was as dirty as the illustration. Much appreciation to you kind sir. Generous with your time and knowledge. Forgot to mention he had been following this post. When i asked him about the sights, he said there was aprecent post on this site. I introduced mynself. And i got tomspend some time with big foot.
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    I met a wonderful gent today at the howard co gun show. He had a table on the left wall and he was selling garands and some stocks. First, he took one aprt and demonstrated where to lube this rifle, but more germaine to this post he took the rear sight apart AND ( most important) he put it back together. I turned the windage knob and it made my rifle sight feel like it was as dirty as the illustration. Much appreciation to you kind sir. Generous with your time and knowledge.

    Thay's great Zorros. Now you've seen first hand that Garand sights and other assemblies are not all that complicated. That should boost your confidence that you can actually clean and lube your rifle easily and correctly.

    :thumbsup:
     

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