Gun Violence Restraining Order?

Threeband · Feb 18, 2018

How about an anonymous tip line to report drunk drivers?

Their cars would be immediately impounded and their licenses revoked until they can prove they are not a menace.

It would save more lives in a month than total firearms confiscation would save in 20 years.

F8L_Funnel · Feb 18, 2018

In terms of transfer of custody of a firearm: Lets say you get accused by someone, a jealous significant other or a co-worker that doesn't like you, whatever the case may be, and the LEOs come and "Temporarily Detain" your firearms. Because you are appalled at the situation and you are exactly eager to hand over you property on what you know to be BS and perhaps let loose a few choice words to the officer and they arrest/ cite you for obstruction. (don't say it can't happen, because it does)

Fast forward the stipulated "72 hours" and no evidence of a threat has been presented and you are allowed to reclaim your property. Since they are transferring custody of the firearm back to you, would you have to do a NICS check? Because of you enthusiastic reaction to the situation 3 days earlier, could that affect the NICS and then prevent you from taking possession?

If your guns are detained/ confiscated by LE, is that considered a transfer of custody? I bring this up because after Sandyhook, I considered putting one of mine up for consignment at Freestate. They told me if I decided to take the gun back, even though I still own it, I would need to pay for the NICS check and have to wait for it to clear.

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

Mark75H said:
I agree, without a "blowback" clause that lets innocent people retaliate against false accusers and without mechanism for instantly returning property taken by false accusation or when "time is up", laws like this will always be used unfairly and corruptly.

As I said earlier, the devil's in the detail of any legislation. This "blowback" mechanism would be an essential component in my opinion.

Ranchero50 · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
As I said earlier, the devil's in the detail of any legislation. This "blowback" mechanism would be an essential component in my opinion.

So you're still stuck on the premise that taking their firearms will dissuade folks from doing evil? Yep, acting just like a grabber...

Not trying to be mean but this train of thought just doesn't go anywhere. HIPPA lawyers and mental health advocates fought against it during FSA 2013 because taking firearms from mental patients would keep those who need help but don't want to lose their firearms from seeking help.

Moon · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
As I said earlier, the devil's in the detail of any legislation. This "blowback" mechanism would be an essential component in my opinion.

There have been numerous occasions where interaction with the police have resulted in bad things happening to people who don't deserve it.

When the police sent to confiscate the firearms of a person with violent tendencies, all it takes is one to "fear for his life" and its over for the accused.

No blowback when you get blown away.

lonewolf220 · Feb 18, 2018

teratos said:
IF the government would stand behind the 2A, I think the vast majority of people would be in favor of this and universal background checks. Since confiscation seems to be the left's only solution, there can be no discussion on anything.

Depends on how the universal background check is done. If I could call in a NICS check like a dealer but not have to maintain paperwork, basically a go/no go response, maybe I'd be ok with it. Devil is always in the details.

But right now the universal background check means a database of who owns what. I don't like that idea, and still wouldn't like it even IF the gov stood behind the 2A. Way to easy for that to screw us over with a change in who's in charge. Those DACA kids all thought they were safe registering their info with the government for temporary legal status and now they are afraid with Trump in the whitehouse the gov will use that info to round them up and deport them. Database of all gun owners and who owns what and, you better believe it would eventually be used against us

Biggfoot44 · Feb 18, 2018

Ok , we discussed it for 45 posts . It's a bad idea .

It's inherently too vague . If someone were to explicitly announce plans to commit specific murder(s) , that would already recieve official attention. Have an intrest in history , or criminalogy, or have a strong belief in somthing at all ( religion , local sports team , that Fords rule and Chevys drool, etc. That will scoop up 5 million innocent victims for every potential mass murderer .

Wide open for blackmail and retaliation of family and work squables for entirely unrelated reasons , or no reason at all .

As has been mentioned by others with first hand knowledge : There ain't ( used ironically) no such thing as temporary confiscation. If it leaves your sight in LE possession the default de facto situation is its gone . The owner must assume the initive to jump through multiple hoops , with narrow time limits . At any point , any one individual can " not feel comfortable " , and the owner's options are " well you can sue us then " .

*********

When I mentioned the idea of long term sleeper Trolls in another thread , I thought I was showing off by listing highly unlikely hypothetical. But Damned if this isn't happening too often lately to be accidental coincidence .

Join several years ago . Make reasonably intellegent and relevant posts after joining . Come back for brief periods every 1 to 2yrs , make reasonable posts. Now poof ! They're poping up spouting anti-gun nonsense , while the MGA is in session.

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

Biggfoot44 said:
Ok , we discussed it for 45 posts . It's a bad idea .

It's inherently too vague . If someone were to explicitly announce plans to commit specific murder(s) , that would already recieve official attention. Have an intrest in history , or criminalogy, or have a strong belief in somthing at all ( religion , local sports team , that Fords rule and Chevys drool, etc. That will scoop up 5 million innocent victims for every potential mass murderer .

Wide open for blackmail and retaliation of family and work squables for entirely unrelated reasons , or no reason at all .

As has been mentioned by others with first hand knowledge : There ain't ( used ironically) no such thing as temporary confiscation. If it leaves your sight in LE possession the default de facto situation is its gone . The owner must assume the initive to jump through multiple hoops , with narrow time limits . At any point , any one individual can " not feel comfortable " , and the owner's options are " well you can sue us then " .

*********

When I mentioned the idea of long term sleeper Trolls in another thread , I thought I was showing off by listing highly unlikely hypothetical. But Damned if this isn't happening too often lately to be accidental coincidence .

Join several years ago . Make reasonably intellegent and relevant posts after joining . Come back for brief periods every 1 to 2yrs , make reasonable posts. Now poof ! They're poping up spouting anti-gun nonsense , while the MGA is in session.

Got it. I thought the idea was worth discussing. It’s been discussed. Carry on.

And carry on with the paranoid delusional thinking. That’s a surefire to prevail in this long fight that we’re in.

When I took the time to drive to Annapolis last Monday and walk around in solidarity with some of you I felt good that I had made a small effort to get involved. Won’t make that mistake again.

DaemonAssassin · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
Got it. I thought the idea was worth discussing. It’s been discussed. Carry on.

And carry on with the paranoid delusional thinking. That’s a surefire to prevail in this long fight that we’re in.

When I took the time to drive to Annapolis last Monday and walk around in solidarity with some of you I felt good that I had made a small effort to get involved. Won’t make that mistake again.

You turned up the heat in the kitchen and now you are upset about it no longer being what you wanted or expected it to be? You don't know what a good flaming is on here, but I do, because I've had my fair share of flaming, during my time as a member on here. Look at the image for my response to your cry for attention.

Grow a thicker skin if you want to survive on here.

Ranchero50 · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
Got it. I thought the idea was worth discussing. It’s been discussed. Carry on.

And carry on with the paranoid delusional thinking. That’s a surefire to prevail in this long fight that we’re in.

Nope, the only way to win is to go toe to toe with grabbers like Rack does with the Patriot Picket and try to make them understand that gun control doesn't work. That's why the signs and speech is aggressive and not passivist like your suggestion.

When I took the time to drive to Annapolis last Monday and walk around in solidarity with some of you I felt good that I had made a small effort to get involved. Won’t make that mistake again.

All are welcome. You think your idea is valid and you consider us paranoid delusional because you refuse to see it from another perspective that history has shown to be the correct one.

CZ Peasy · Feb 18, 2018

How does your perception that you have been slighted by one individual on this forum factor into your desire to protest the infringement of the rights of all Marylanders?

danb · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
Got it. I thought the idea was worth discussing. It’s been discussed. Carry on.

And carry on with the paranoid delusional thinking. That’s a surefire to prevail in this long fight that we’re in.

When I took the time to drive to Annapolis last Monday and walk around in solidarity with some of you I felt good that I had made a small effort to get involved. Won’t make that mistake again.

Problem with a proposal like this is that there is a basic lack of trust. No one wants to support and idea like this when all Annapolis has done is infringe based on speculative (at best) testimony and garbage statistics, which was later disavowed under oath in the lawsuit

There are serious problems with civil asset forfeiture. There is also legitimate concerns about false accusations. separated couples can be nasty to each other, for no other reason than to make sure misery is shared. Ive seen parents get accused of "abuse" with the encouragement of the ex, because the parent took away video games because grades were crap. Its not abuse, the judge knows it, and the lawyers know it. But the court still has to take it seriously, hear everyone out, and lawyers are happy to bill hours. Ex's make false accusations all the time. Imagine your marraige goes south and your ex makes up stuff to get an upper hand in custody, and also to irritate you. Sherriff comes and takes your guns. This is common than it should be.

Bottom line with a proposal like this: We need to undo a lot of existing infringements before people are willing to entertain more ideas that sound like they could be infringements- even if they may in fact be good ideas. Wake me when we roll back the HQL, 77r, Handgun roster, assault weapons ban, and a laundry list of other infringements that do zero to stop murder and mayhem in this state.

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

CZ Peasy said:
How does your perception that you have been slighted by one individual on this forum factor into your desire to protest the infringement of the rights of all Marylanders?

It has zero bearing on my interest in protesting but it certainly changes my perception of this group. Calling my post a cry for attention? And me part of a sleeper cell? Some of you are f-ing nuts. I thought I was asking for opinions on a policy idea. That was all.

Bob A · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
It has zero bearing on my interest in protesting but it certainly changes my perception of this group. Calling my post a cry for attention? And me part of a sleeper cell? Some of you are f-ing nuts. I thought I was asking for opinions on a policy idea. That was all.

Viewing the multitude of posters here a "group" as though we are all defined by whatever quality you find objectionable is very Alt-Left.

Failing to post or otherwise maintain a viable presence here over a five-year period, and calling people paranoid and insane, while ignoring the reality that this site is a source of information for anti-2A groups statewide, including the legislature, is short-sighted, insulting and annoying.

Implying that an appearance at Annapolis last Monday was a mistake that you won't repeat is interesting.

The article you referenced was interesting, but unworkable in places such as Maryland, where Attorneys General have indicated in memoranda and public statements that their aim is elimination of handguns from public possession. Current AG Frosh has gone so far as to label gun owners as insane. Obviously placing trust in such governments is not going to end well, unless you agree with their ends.

I'd like to believe you meant well, but your irrational reaction to any pushback from other posters undermines my faith in your bona fides.

I could go on, but what would be the point?

alucard0822 · Feb 18, 2018

Smells like BS, if there is actual evidence of a crime, domestic violence or insanity, police can already investigate and arrest, a judge can issue orders or commit someone. Problem with ideas like this, outside of the flat out bliss ninny name is that it inherently only comes into play if the police are fishing, and don't have probable cause of a crime. It's intention is to remove a person's rights on suspicion alone, without due process. It's simple, if there is enough evidence that someone is criminally dangerous, then arrest them, they shouldn't be driving, walking out in public, able to buy gas, tools, or have access to any of the other limitless inanimate objects they can harm someone with, give them their day in court, and handle a conviction according to the law. If there isn't evidence then they shouldn't be bothered, definitely shouldn't have a fundamental right removed.

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

Bob A said:
The article you referenced was interesting, but unworkable in places such as Maryland, where Attorneys General have indicated in memoranda and public statements that their aim is elimination of handguns from public possession. Current AG Frosh has gone so far as to label gun owners as insane. Obviously placing trust in such governments is not going to end well, unless you agree with their ends.

Thanks for the feedback. I failed to acknowledge the sensitivity regarding how this would likely be implemented in MD. Completely agree re Frosh. Was thinking about it more generally, in the context of the current heated discussion of federal policy.

And, yes, I've been a member for awhile and haven't posted much, largely because when I do stop by I'm in agreement with what I read and don't feel the need to echo.

My wife and kids got a kick out of hearing that I might be a Dem in Rep clothing, so thanks for that too.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 18, 2018

Was my tinfoil hat liner tighter than usual today ? Could be . But I usually self-filter myself to the extent I've gotten burned in real life a cpl times by not being paranoid enough.

*********

Meanwhile at the Topic .

Some versions of speculation on this include automatic headshrinking . This could run the danger of a sane person unjustly accused becoming Prohibited under FSA 2013 .

For persons believed to be crazy enough to be dangerous , there is already as system to deal with it . Front line LE usually has BS detectors fine tuned enough to see past blatent deception .

But further still , these are focused only on removing firearms .

The largest Mass Murder by single individual in the US was commited with a gallon of unleaded gasoline and a match . ( Largest by two people , fertilizer )

And we have seen more recently , more people killed by driving a rental truck through a crowd, than by shooting into a crowd using a truckload of bumpstock equipped rifles .

In the What about Schoolchildren Dept , witness in China where mass murders at schools using knives and axes are common .

Bob A · Feb 19, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
My wife and kids got a kick out of hearing that I might be a Dem in Rep clothing, so thanks for that too.

You're welcome. I vote in the Dem primary, myself.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 19, 2018

DINO Power !

Being registered as Rep in most of Md is pointlessly disenfrancising yourself .

Glaron · Feb 19, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
Not a novel concept (recently enacted in CA) but maybe worthy of discussion more broadly. Devil’s in the details but this could be a means to prevent some of these premeditated attacks. Interested in thoughts from the group.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control-republicans-consider-grvo/

So you are not responsible enough. Need more Government control over lives.

Move to Venezuela. No Constitution, Government controls all, no guns. That is your paradise. Move.

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